(04-24-2010, 01:19 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]I could say so many things about how much of a waste of time posting that was.
HAHAHA AND THE FUCKING TEXT BOOK YOU ORIGINALLY POSTED
WASN'T?
i dunno guys he sounds pretty sincere to me
and some of his arguments (some, not all) do make sense
sounds to me like he's legitimately trying to salvage his reputation
(04-24-2010, 01:21 AM)Glukom Wrote: [ -> ]sounds to me like he's legitimately trying to salvage his reputation
I'm sorry, but salvaging a reputation after making a first post that angers nearly everyone involved in the project is a hard thing to do.
It would be understandable if he had started with less bashing to the spriters, but he's dug himself into a hole that's quite difficult to get out of now.
You're completely missing the point.
You're saying that criticism isn't useful if the sprite looks passable. And that's fine and dandy, but have you considered that some people are getting involved in this not only to sprite their favorite characters, but to improve their current skill?
It doesn't matter if it looks passable to you or anybody else if the spriter is actually looking to improve in their work in every way possible.
Whether or not a sprite is good is not dependent on just the shading and the usability. It's dependent on structure, color palettes, emotion, and depth. If something looks off, we're going to crit it, because that's what we're supposed to do.
Whereas you keep making the "pointless crit" argument, ignoring when people are saying that there is no such thing as pointless crit. And then when people try to further their points, you just shoot it down and act like you magically don't care anymore. You're not actually seeing our angle for it-- you're just dismissing what we're saying in the hopes that this will just blow over magically.
And that's why people are still angry about it. :/
(04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: [ -> ]It's not necessarily "non-spriters," but if said user hasn't actually sprited, they're more and more likely to come off as wrong. Especially when they bring up completely invalid arguments as an effort to save face. :l
(04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying criticism isn't necessary! Quote me on where I actually said that, for heavens sake!
(04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]I said Pointless criticism
You're welcome.
(hint: there is no such thing as pointless criticism unless it's completely wrong-- which none of the criticism in the sprites here ever is. :l
What? I said quote me on where I said criticism wasn't necessary. Not where I said "pointless criticism". I never said criticism in general is not necessary. Criticism is great! I'm all for it! It's just when people point out insignificant little things that inevitably delay working progress... that's just what I think needs to be avoided here.
Also... as an effort to save face? Or maybe I'm posting these things as an effort to further help my suggestion, and possibly benefit the forums here in terms of working speed.
Alright, Pointless isn't the word. Unnecessary is more like it.
I don't think bashing the spriters was his intention. I think he was trying to help, he just didn't say his point well.
I think it's a bad first impression - he shouldn't have made a big topic like this, he shouldn't have made a wall of text, and he should've made his point better. I don't think that means you have to insult the poor guy to death, though, especially after he started apologizing.
Also please note that we don't have a damned deadline to meet or anything. This is literally nothing more than a fangame that people participate in helping with during their free time. We don't have to get everything done by Q4. This is a volunteer, free project that people are doing for fun.
Why even bother rushing or critiquing it? As far as I know, I'm the only person here that will actually dedicate hours of work to a game project, and I'm working on my own commercial projects, not a fangame spriting project.
There's absolutely no need to rush this project, because there's nothing to rush it for. We've shown a lot more progress with this one than the previous incarnations, just because everyone is making quality sprites, quality animations, and there is just lots of quality in general.
So what are you critiquing? You're critiquing the validity of quality sprites. And that's... stupid.
(04-24-2010, 01:24 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: [ -> ]It's not necessarily "non-spriters," but if said user hasn't actually sprited, they're more and more likely to come off as wrong. Especially when they bring up completely invalid arguments as an effort to save face. :l
(04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying criticism isn't necessary! Quote me on where I actually said that, for heavens sake!
(04-24-2010, 01:14 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]I said Pointless criticism
You're welcome.
(hint: there is no such thing as pointless criticism unless it's completely wrong-- which none of the criticism in the sprites here ever is. :l
What? I said quote me on where I said criticism wasn't necessary. Not where I said "pointless criticism". I never said criticism in general is not necessary. Criticism is great! I'm all for it! It's just when people point out insignificant little things that inevitably delay working progress... that's just what I think needs to be avoided here.
Also... as an effort to save face? Or maybe I'm posting these things as an effort to further help my suggestion, and possibly benefit the forums here in terms of working speed.
Alright, Pointless isn't the word. Unnecessary is more like it.
Please re-read this post.
(04-24-2010, 01:24 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: [ -> ]You're completely missing the point.
You're saying that criticism isn't useful if the sprite looks passable. And that's fine and dandy, but have you considered that some people are getting involved in this not only to sprite their favorite characters, but to improve their current skill?
It doesn't matter if it looks passable to you or anybody else if the spriter is actually looking to improve in their work in every way possible.
Whether or not a sprite is good is not dependent on just the shading and the usability. It's dependent on structure, color palettes, emotion, and depth. If something looks off, we're going to crit it, because that's what we're supposed to do.
Whereas you keep making the "pointless crit" argument, ignoring when people are saying that there is no such thing as pointless crit. And then when people try to further their points, you just shoot it down and act like you magically don't care anymore. You're not actually seeing our angle for it-- you're just dismissing what we're saying in the hopes that this will just blow over magically.
And that's why people are still angry about it. :/
(04-24-2010, 01:24 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: [ -> ]You're completely missing the point.
You're saying that criticism isn't useful if the sprite looks passable. And that's fine and dandy, but have you considered that some people are getting involved in this not only to sprite their favorite characters, but to improve their current skill?
It doesn't matter if it looks passable to you or anybody else if the spriter is actually looking to improve in their work in every way possible.
Whether or not a sprite is good is not dependent on just the shading and the usability. It's dependent on structure, color palettes, emotion, and depth. If something looks off, we're going to crit it, because that's what we're supposed to do.
Whereas you keep making the "pointless crit" argument, ignoring when people are saying that there is no such thing as pointless crit. And then when people try to further their points, you just shoot it down and act like you magically don't care anymore. You're not actually seeing our angle for it-- you're just dismissing what we're saying in the hopes that this will just blow over magically.
And that's why people are still angry about it. :/
Alright. Ok. I see now. So this whole project is a means of improving one another's skills? Even if that drags on for many years to come?
I'm sorry about everything. I thought this project was purely for Runouw's engine. I was wrong, and I happily admit that.
I guess I might as well leave. I can't sprite, and the sukapon move I did is lame and unnecessary. Someone else here would just do a way better job on it anyway.
I'll leave you all in peace now then. Best of luck with the project, and all. I hope you don't think so badly on me... but my suggestion was blatant and all, so I don't blame you.
Let me close by saying that Runouw's engine popped up AFTER the project started. When this project began, its original intention was just to sprite all of the characters of Brawl in a universal style. It eventually evolved into a game idea, and then Runouw appeared to code for the idea to turn it into a game.
That doesn't stop it from being purely a spriting project though. The game is just a bonus as far as most of us are considered.
bye
sorry a lot of people gave you a hard time, i see it was just a misunderstanding of the project's main intention
you know he doesn't even seem like such a bad guy to me :I
Seems to me like Tarvonas genuinely wanted to help out, albeit in a wrong, somewhat different way. He seems like he really cares about how the project moves along, so, all in all, no harm done. Let's let bygones be bygones and move on, folks.
Thanks.
And Tarvonas- you don't seem like a bad guy yourself. Why not stick around a while longer; you might find yourself useful!
(04-24-2010, 01:32 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: [ -> ]Let me close by saying that Runouw's engine popped up AFTER the project started. When this project began, its original intention was just to sprite all of the characters of Brawl in a universal style. It eventually evolved into a game idea, and then Runouw appeared to code for the idea to turn it into a game.
That doesn't stop it from being purely a spriting project though. The game is just a bonus as far as most of us are considered.
Yeah, I was around when that happened, actually. That was when I first started checking these boards, though, so I didn't know much about what was going on.
You can delete this topic if you want now. At least then the people who log in later won't get to see what an ass I made myself out to be.
Alrighty, this has passed its discussion potential.
HAPPY ENDING.