The VG Resource

Yes, as the title suggests, this is a lecture. But no, I'm not a noob. I've been surveying this Smash Bros. Project for a very long time now, and I've finally decided to speak up. Just because I have less posts than you guys, doesn't mean I'm any less of a person, so please, refrain from any Anti-noob comments, alright? Don't just exit the page, either. Please, hear what I have to say.

Now you probably already guessed that this lecture is going to be in regards to progress. I'm not going to be all like "MAN YOU GUYS ARE SO SLOW HURRY UP NAO PLZ". I want to go through the way you guys... well... criticise other sprites.

I'm going along looking at all these fabulous standalone sprites... and all but... what? 3 of them have actually had any progress other than that? I've also found during my observation that it isn't necessarily because the spriters are lazy. It's because other people are too busy picking out pointless and insignificant little things in the sprite, which result in the spriter having to re-do it all over again. This very thing has been going on since the dawn of this Smash Bros. Project, and because of it, your progress has been very little.

You're going on about how we must finish Sukapon, so that Runouw can actually work on his engine and all, but even that hasn't gotten far at all! You may have like... close to everyone on the board working on that very character, but you've got all these other users criticizing like little Hitlers in the background! A sprite will never be 100% perfect, OK? Stop acting as though the ones here have to be. If those of you whom are actually pin-pointing these little things like "shading looking wrong" (when it actually looks perfectly fine) stopped for example, hell, maybe we would've gotten more than one or two characters with actual animations. Maybe then Runouw could actually work on the engine.

I see a perfectly wonderful sprite, and apparently the colour of the shoes is a bit off. To me, and to a number of reference pictures, it actually looks perfectly normal. Then the spriter re-posts the sprite with edits, and he gets even more criticism. And this procedure repeats for... what has it been? How many years again?

Is it ego? Do some of you feel the need to post pointless criticism because you want to sound better than the guy spriting, aye? I seriously hope not, because that's just sad.

I'm not the only one who thinks this, just keep that in mind. Hell, I reckon Runouw would be pretty damn sick of what you guys deem "progress" sometimes (EDIT: That wasn't supposed to sound rude. ). You guys seemed to think before that the reason the progress was so little was because of the sprite style. Honestly, it wasn't. To me, this style is harder, and I've got a lot of reasons as to why (which I won't go into detail with). The style had little to do with it; it was the attitude of some people here that held others back. I bet a million dollars that because of your harsh and blatantly pointless criticisms, many a spriter has decided against posting in this thread. Why would they want to be in a community that seems to so willingly reject wonderful works? And why should they?

Heed these words, coming from a "noob" or not. I's assume you've had lectures like these before, or at least people coming along and saying similar things in shorter instances. Don't ignore it, otherwise we won't be seeing the completion of this project for another ten years. If of course it isn't dumped, because of the very reason that some people just aren't allowing the project to move on.

So to a number of you, I say: Let it go and lighten up. Yes, I say lighten up because I've noticed a few of you are just blatantly rude at times.

And one more thing: That guy with the avatar of the naked Asian chick... I honestly can't stand looking at that. Not because I'm "Gay" or anything. Just because it gives me the mindset that you're a... I hate to say this.... but a massive Geek. (EDIT: Seriously, this was intended to in no way be offensive. I sound like a massive jerk here, I'm aware of that. I just personally dislike things like that on community forums, if you know what I mean. Sorry to the dude with this pic as an avatar.)

Gosh, I sound like a mean old man, don't I? Well, I've just vented up all my anger on those select few Jr. Hitlers until now (EDIT: I'm not saying you're all Jr. Hitlers. I'm just stereotyping some people here through posts I've encountered before). It feels good to voice it.

So what do you guys have to say, I wonder? Hopefully I'll get no hate messages, but I suppose it's only to be expected.

If you're reading this and all you did was skim through this whole topic to the end, please go back and actually read it. I'm sure five minutes won't be too much of a hassle.

tl;dr
Five minutes is too much of my life to give up on this

No, but I'll probably read this later.

Who the fuck are you?

We're obviously making noticable progress, if you've been paying attention to any other threads lately. Crit is necessary because we want the sprites to look good.

We've covered this topic so many times already, I don't know why some random guy jumping in and telling us what we're doing wrong (when we already know what we're doing wrong) would change that.

You obviously don't know us or what we've been doing, or how spriting even works, so don't even bother trying to tell us what we're not doing, especially if we're already aware of this. Unfortunately, some of us don't have all of the time in the world to sprite for a freeware fangame, some of us have jobs and school that we have to worry about a lot more than this. The project is going slow, but at least it's not at a complete standstill. How about instead of critiquing us on our criticism, you decide to actually pitch in and do something aside from waste your own time bitching at people you don't even know?

Have fun watching from the sidelines. I mean, unless, you're going to actually pitch in instead of give us "advice" on something that we've covered hundreds of times already. You're giving off a dreadful first impression.

thanks bye

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One more thing-- Most of us are seasoned spriters, giving advice to the slightly weaker spriters so they can improve not only for this project, but in general. If you're telling us not to crit their work, you're telling us to not let them improve at all. Which, honestly, makes you the dick here-- not us. :l


If nobody else has anything to say on the matter, let the topic die here.

(04-23-2010, 10:06 PM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]And one more thing: That guy with the avatar of the naked Asian chick... I honestly can't stand looking at that. Not because I'm "Gay" or anything. Just because it gives me the mindset that you're a... I hate to say this.... but a massive Geek.

lol, ninspriter

Your post gives me the mindset that you're a backseat driver. You're not even involved in the project, yet you want to tell everyone what to do.

Quote:A sprite will never be 100% perfect, OK? Stop acting as though the ones here have to be. If those of you whom are actually pin-pointing these little things like "shading looking wrong" (when it actually looks perfectly fine)

You're right, but it can get damn close. The people who are working on the project aren't trying for a shitty style-mixing flash game; they want something that looks like it wasn't made by a 4 year old.

Quote:I actually can't get over some of you guys. I see a perfectly wonderful sprite, and apparently the colour of the shoes it a bit off. To me, and to a number of reference pictures, it actually looks perfectly normal. Then the spriter re-posts the sprite with edits, and he gets even more criticism. And this procedure repeats for...

So you want everyone to say "YEAH THATS FINE LOL" and stop the spriter from improving?

(04-23-2010, 10:06 PM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]Gosh, I sound like a mean old man, don't I?

You sound like an 80+ year-old pedo who's irritated because you're afraid you're gonna kick the bucket before you get to play this.

In all seriousness, I can't really relate to what you're saying without you showing specific examples of sprites that you consider gorgeous. I bet a spriter who never looked at the thread it originated from could probably find similar problems that were found in the initial critiques.

Also, the main reason there is so much nit-picking is that everyone wants it to look professional. If they DIDN'T want that and they just wanted the game to be done as soon as possible, then they could just use freaking Mario and Luigi RPG sprites or edits of Megaman Zero to make Link and every other sword user in the game. It's not like a real game that has a deadline and a release date.. sure, better sooner than later, but everyone can take time.

And I'd personally love to contribute, but in addition to being a novice spriter who would just bog the pros down, I work 40+ hours a week, and I work my ass off. I'm sure almost everyone else is in a similar situation, and to those still in school, I can definitely relate to how hectic that shit can be.

Long post short, show some me some more evidence, or shut your face because you make me so mad that my ears bleed.

didnt even get farther than the first sentence

stop saying noob god damn

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okay skimmed through it


you are either the biggest idiot or a horrible troll
"dont improve sprites, put out a game with a ton of shitty art, peace"

where the fuck did this even come from

Really like how he logged out immediately after posting this, too. :l

I'm sitting here pretending that he's expecting to come back tomorrow and have caused some kind of worldwide epiphany with his thread. I say we use it for more important things now.

I'm having a lot of trouble catching a Manectric in the Safari Zone, any pointers?

(04-23-2010, 10:53 PM)TomGuycott Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sitting here pretending that he's expecting to come back tomorrow and have caused some kind of worldwide epiphany with his thread. I say we use it for more important things now.

I'm having a lot of trouble catching a Manectric in the Safari Zone, any pointers?

usually I go Bait-Mud-Ball and pray to god he doesn't run away.

Manectric is rage inducing to catch in safari zone. Zangoose wasn't as rage inducing.

"I'm not a noob. Don't think I'm a noob. Noob noob noobity noob noob noob.
Complaining about stuff I'm not bothering to help with, blah.
I don't like that naked asian chick, I'm not gay.
something about Hitler jr. and hassles."

I think that about sums it up.

He has no point. But one would suggest that we all focus on at least just 5 characters for now. Let all the other sprites be updated when we actually get at least 5 characters done.

Alright... Talk about first impressions? You guys have got to be the most messed up batch of people I've met in a forum in regards to welcoming. Even the moderators spam "fuck" in their first reply.

If you'd read what I said, you would know that I have been surveying this forum for a very long time. It'd only now that I decided to voice my irritation, and whow, by doing so, I've only built more. I thought you guys might put aside your egos and what-not to maybe listen to my suggestion here, but no. From what I've read, you're far too shallow.

I was actually looking forward to participating in this project. I was working on a few sukapon moves right now, in fact. They don't look great, but they're a start. I was simply hoping that by saying what I did, I'd maybe change the way this project works for the better. Not cast everyone into a mindless fit of rage.

God, Chaoxys, are you for real? It's quite blatantly obvious that you skimmed through the writing, picked out a few words you saw, and critiqued on them. That or you have a very limited way of thinking. My post is actually a lot deeper than that, but I suppose like I said, you're just too shallow to understand it.

And @ georgia brown: Whow! For real? Is that what you got from my post? Can you even Read? I said noob ONCE in the whole first paragraph. Hahaha! No, I didn't say put shitty sprites in, and no, I didn't say we shouldn't critique. I SAID we should STOP GIVING POINTLESS CRITISISM that has no real benefit beyond changing one tiny insignificant shade of "red" that looks slighltly wrong. Which to most, isn't even noticable.

I thought maybe you guys would be a bit more civilized when greeting someone who carries a suggestion. Oh well.

Hehehe... I thought moderators were supposed to be the nice guys. You're probably the harshest one here, Alpha six. I really, really don't like you from what I've read all around these forums.
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EDIT: I suppose I was being a bit rash. I was just angry, really. I hope you guys will accept my apology, which I am offering now.

(04-24-2010, 12:07 AM)Tarvonas Wrote: [ -> ]Alright... Talk about first impressions? You guys have got to be the most messed up batch of people I've met in a forum. Even the moderators spam "fuck".

Just how long is "quite some time"? If you'd been here even longer than 6 months (especially checking more than just this project's topics), you'd have known that many of the mods here use "harsh" language.

Anyways, about your "advice," really, because we are spriters (mostly, anyways), and, therefore, artists, we usually find it rather offensive when other, seemingly unrelated people suggest that we ignore quality and rather focus on getting finished. We point out these small mistakes not to be pricks or to slow the project down, but because we want the sprites to be as good as we can possibly get them with our combined skillsets.

If you don't like the attention to detail that is put into these sprites, you can kindly go play Super Smash Flash.

Oh come on!

- I have -1 reputation because some people respond rationally to suggestions. No matter how "bad" you deem the suggestion, at least ask more before clicking on the minus rep button, or whatever it is.
- I said Jr. Hitlers as a reference to how you guys so seriously aim for perfection.
- I also said around two times already that I just signed up so I can finally voice my opinion, which explains the lack of posts.
- It isn't a rant topic.
- The avatar is lame, I know, but I didn't deem in necessary to spend much time getting something all cool and unique.
- I didn't call myself a noob. I asked you guys not to call me a noob (How did so many of you mix that one up?).
- How did you get the impression that I thought I was all important, and that this topic is all about me wanting you guys to speed up? I thought you guys wanted to do that, from a number of posts I've read here. I was plainly suggesting how you could go by doing that.

I'll say what I truly meant in my first post here, in a more simple light:

I'm not telling you guys to skip on criticism. I'm not saying you should go with what's bad. I'm saying you should go with what's good. I'm saying you should not be aiming to go with what's perfect, because perfection cannot be achieved, and you'll merely be chasing it for years to come. Be happy with what looks nice, and this project will actually go by much faster.

I'm not trying to insult you guys. I really don't want to do that. If I gave you the impression that I'm a troll, I'm sorry. I genuinely am. I'm making a few edits to the first post to make it sound less like one big insult, because that truthfully wasn't what I intended.

And no, to those of you that actually think I'm an old man because of what I said in my first post, I'm actually only 16. You should be happy to know I'm not an 80 year old pedo.