The VG Resource

Not really because with Pinsir and Scyther, you generally get them from the same places, same way, different games. While with heracross you have to headbutt trees or put honey on it to get it.

Just because the pokemon are similar doesn't mean that they are counterparts. There is more to being a counterpart then a lot of shared moves.

(07-21-2010, 10:09 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2010, 09:46 PM)Zac Wrote: [ -> ]I think pinis is better.

zac could you please explain to me what on earth a "pinis" is?

pinis is pinsir spelled wrong


also Syther and Pinsir are version exclusives that means theu're linked for life

Well they also share a few moves as well as they can be gotten in the same exact way as eachother.

It's the same thing with Magnemite and Voltorb.

And Jynx, Electabuzz, and Magmar. That one really bugged me for some reason :/

Counterparts aren't always version exclusive Pokemon. For example, Ursaring and Donphan are version exclusives but are not counterparts. They don't have the stats to be ones. Now, Skarmory and Mantine are version exclusives, but what makes them counterparts is there stats.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/mantine
Mantine - Skarmory
Hp: 65 65
Atk: 40 80
Def: 70 140
Sp. Atk: 80 40
Sp. Def: 140 70
Speed: 70 70

Look at that. Identical all the way through. Bannete and Dusclops have Donphan and Ursaring syndrome. They were simply version exclusives, but theres nothing in the stats themselves other than the total to suggest that they are actually counterparts.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heracross
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/pinsir
Heracross - Pinsir
Hp: 80 65 (difference of 15)
Atk: 125 125
Def: 75 100 (difference of 25)
Sp.Atk: 40 55 (difference of 15)
Sp.Def: 95 70 (difference of 25)
Spe: 85 85

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/pinsir
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/scyther
Pinsir Scyther
Hp: 65 70 (difference of 5)
Atk: 125 110 (difference of 15)
Def: 80 100 (difference of 20)
Sp.Atk: 55 55 (difference of 0)
Sp.Def: 80 70 (difference of 10)
Spe: 105 85 (difference of 20)

Scyther and Pinsir have similar stats, but not even nearly as similar as Heracross and Pinsir do. The base stat change is too dramatic and there isn't any obvious shuffling (like 15 and 25 base stat, or the swapping of offensive and defensive stats). Whether they intended in the beginning to have Pinsir and Scyther be counterparts was thrown away when Scyther was given an evolution and Pinsir was left in the dust. How the Pokemon is often captured doesn't make much of a difference because Pokemon capture locations are only swapped with version exclusive Pokemon (like Teddiursa and Phanphy, Skarmory and Mantine being an exception).

Jynx not evolving also bugged me too. But looking at it, Jynx was about 40 base points off, while Magmar and Electabuzz were only two or three different (which was changed in Pokemon Platinum, when they received the same base stat total upon evolution, only differencing by two or three in one stat). Jynx will probably evolve with Mr.Mime.

I never said that all version exclusive pokemon are counterparts with eachother.

There are a few things that make a pokemon have a counterpart.
Stats, How you get them, and sometimes version exclusives come into play.

Notice how all together Heracross and Pinsir have a base stat difference of 80 and Scyther and Pinsir have a base stat difference of 70. Which means that actually Scyther and Pinsir are closer then Heracross and Pinsir.

So in the end Scyther and Pinsir are a better pair then Heracross and Pinsir.

I just owned you with your own facts fyi.

Uh
What

They've all got the same base stat total. All of them. All three of them reach a grand total of 500 bst. Notice how Pinsir and Heracross swap base stat difference? 15, 25, 15, 25. The pattern repeats, and two of their stats are identical. Scyther and Pinsir don't share this. At all. Both of them also have a dramatically different move pool; while Pinsir and Heracross almost have the same move pool (Heracross having what you could consider and upgraded version of the two of them). There move pool, of course, doesn't make as much a difference as their stats do, it's just another similarity between them.

Heracross
(difference of 15)

(difference of 25)
(difference of 15)
(difference of 25)

Add this up and you get 80.

Scyther
(difference of 5)
(difference of 15)
(difference of 20)
(difference of 0)
(difference of 10)
(difference of 20)

Add this up and you get 70.

again, Scyther and Pinsir are indeed closer tonegther then Heracross and Pinsir.

---

Also gonna add that Beedrill and Butterfree also have a vast moveset from eachother and yet are still counterparts.

Hence why moveset isn't on my list of what makes a counterpart.

Thats not relevant at all. Scyther and Pinsir don't share a similar base stat difference and distribution (which Heracross and Pinsir have). What they add up too doesn't matter it's the stats themselves I'm paying attention to.

And I am too. You went by how the differences made them closer when in fact the differences make them farther apart. Pattern be damned because there is a less amount of differences between Scyther and Pinsir rather then Heracross and Pinsir.

*Plays PokeFlute, summons JarJar

gabe why are you trying to argue two different pokemon from different gens are counterparts
dont answer i dont care

Yeah, Gen 1 had a lot of counterparts and when Gen 2 came out, they seemed to have ditched it.

Jigglypuff/Clefairy, Vulpix/Growlithe, Oddish/Bellsprout, Scyther/Pinsir, Electabuzz/Magmar, Mr. Mime/Jynx, Caterpie/Weedle, Voltorb/Magnemite, the Nidorans, Kabuto/Omanyte, etc. etc. etc.

Then they added inter-gen counterparts, like Tauros/Miltank, Magikarp/Feebas, Pidgey/Starly, Ratatta/Sentret/Zigzagoon/Bidoof, /Ralts/Abra, Skitty/Meowth, the Legendary Trios, Starters, etc. etc. etc.

Single game counterparts do creep in every so often though; Lotad/Seedot, for example.

The way that Pinsir and Scyther are counterparts:
-They are generally found in the same area/the same way as one another (the only game with any difference at all is Platinum.)
-They are sometimes version Exclusives of eachother (Only with Diamond/Pearl, Fire Red/Leaf Green, and Red/Blue)
-Their base stats are closer then with Heracross and Pinsir
-They don't have to have the same moveset, See Butterfree and Beedrill.
-They have been counterparts since Generation 1. That doesn't change with any other pokemon that has a counterpart either.

The way that Pinsir and Heracross are counterparts:
-This Card

I would go with Scyther and Pinsir because there are more reasons.

there was also an anime episode where the heracross were natural rivals to the pinsir, but untill some ingame text says they are conected, there isn't an actual connection
also pinsir can do this