So I'm supposed to make a game with lightsources all over the place? Thinking in terms of single sprites, top down lightsource doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, but in an entire game scenario, would not a variety of lightsources all around the scene look very messy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't lightsources supposed to represent the source of the light? If that is the case, why the fuck would each object have it's own personal form of illumination?
As for the painting remark, some of the prettiest graphics I have ever seen have stemmed from the idea that the world is represented as a painting (such as Okami). Surely treating the game as art, rather than graphics, will, eventually, produce a more pleasing outcome?
I was going to explain why you're retarded with a huge text wall, but instead I'll just say this: Stop taking what I said out of context to make it look like you're winning when you know damn well what I was talking about.
done w/ this thread, peace
both the character and sprite are incredibly uninspired and ugly
dont even wanna really
bother
(08-17-2010, 03:41 PM)Track Eleven Wrote: [ -> ]I was going to explain why you're retarded with a huge text wall, but instead I'll just say this: Stop taking what I said out of context to make it look like you're winning when you know damn well what I was talking about.
done w/ this thread, peace
I'm not taking it out of context and trying to make it look like I'm winning. I'm trying to have a serious debate about sprite theory. Why should things not have the same lightsource? Why not top down?
You seem to respond with nothing but "You're retarded" etc., while I'm seriously trying to expand my knowledge.
I'm prepared to accept that the sprite is bad. I just want to know why it's bad, rather than just: "don't use a top down lightsource". I would like to know WHY I shouldn't use a top down lightsource.
Oh, and Burn. The character is pretty old. He's part of a game I started making a while back called The Last Wizard, which I later expanded on. I wanted to keep his design relatively simple to allow for a lot of customisation in costume etc. There is also a substantial amount of detail missing from both the sprite and the reference.
well I can see where this thread is going and I like it.
All I'm going to say now is that you really need to stop fucking defending your sprites. We are not here for showcasing, we are here at least try and help you improve. So lets sum up what's going on here.
-Character is awfully uninspired, up to the point where he reminds me so much of and sort of midevil wizard.
You:it's an old character
-The design is way to bland, could fall on the first one I mentioned even. At least try to come up with something original
You:But I'm improving the sprite, I have no evidence of it but I sure as hell am trying to.
-Asuming this is an RPG styled game, I can understand you try to go top down but fuck, it shouldn't turn out like it's pillow shaded. I haven't see one rpg even do that.
You:Light sources aren't suppose to go all over the place though, what the fuck are you all talking about theres opnly one.
Everyone gave you a reason, you ignored it and started to cry about. If your going to try to take critiscism then at least try to tak note of what ever one said. because it hardly looks like your doing anything to the sprite itself.
It's almost like fucking bwneton, bloom, lucroshi and zeemiss all ovewr again but this time just put together.
I'm not trying to defend the sprite. I'm perfectly willing to change it. The only reason I'm not improving the character's design is because I just wanted something to sprite, and picked a character of mine I created a while ago. I only wanted to sprite that character in an RPGish style, and not redesign the character as a whole. I have other characters and ideas that are far more original, but I just felt like spriting this.
I'm asking for tips on how to make it not seem pillowshaded. All I have so far is: "It looks pillowshaded" and "It looks ugly". Okay, there's something wrong with it, but if I didn't notice it myself, how am I meant to know how to fix it if you just tell me it looks bad?
The light sources thing wasn't talking about one sprite. I was referring to a tileset, and the suggestion by 1up that the lightsources can be different for tiles and characters, and I was simply asking for clarification on this.
I'm not trying to defend the sprite or ignore criticism. The only reason it seems that way is that without a positive aspect to criticism (ie. how I can fix it, rather than just what's wrong), I have no clue what the fuck I'm supposed to do.
you know, I was going to make a single post without quoting everthing...
but fuck it.
(08-18-2010, 02:35 PM)Hoeloe Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not trying to defend the sprite. I'm perfectly willing to change it. The only reason I'm not improving the character's design is because I just wanted something to sprite, and picked a character of mine I created a while ago. I only wanted to sprite that character in an RPGish style, and not redesign the character as a whole. I have other characters and ideas that are far more original, but I just felt like spriting this.
so you wanted to sprite this? okay, but that doesn't mean you don't have to keep it the same as the original thing you have done. Hell even minor changes would not even hurt. How the hell did you ever believe that? this isn't really a good excuse. Figures for not trying to defend the sprite.
I'm asking for tips on how to make it not seem pillowshaded. All I have so far is: "It looks pillowshaded" and "It looks ugly". Okay, there's something wrong with it, but if I didn't notice it myself, how am I meant to know how to fix it if you just tell me it looks bad?
so really all you want to do is just figure out not to make it pillow shaded? You really could have just googled it up and this whole ordeal could have at least been avoided.
The light sources thing wasn't talking about one sprite. I was referring to a tileset, and the suggestion by 1up that the lightsources can be different for tiles and characters, and I was simply asking for clarification on this.
look at the majority of SNES or Genisis RPG games out there and use that as a refrence from that if you want to try and understand what we are saying, we don't really need to explain half of the shit in detail just to help you out. It's common sense.
I'm not trying to defend the sprite or ignore criticism. The only reason it seems that way is that without a positive aspect to criticism (ie. how I can fix it, rather than just what's wrong), I have no clue what the fuck I'm supposed to do.
Alright, this is something that this has been fucking bothering me for some time, so allow me to do 1up's job of doing a huge wall of text (Which I have seem to be doing all this time, dhame that I had to take his job) and at least explain in some detail.
Criticism is something we need to take and improve the things we do right? though the problem is, theres always going to be harsh critiscism no matter what.
So honest to god, explain to me on how the fuck there is a difference between being blunt honest about your work and positive criticism? seems like there all the same to me, there is absoulutly no such thing as a negative criticism unless someone straight out says it sucks the first time they see it.
Far as I see it, no one in this thread has done that at all. Don't even think about using gorsal's posts as an example, he told you that you could at least try to get rid of the pillow shading, you tried but it didn't work and he told you it still wasn't good.
EDIT: Another thing I should add
Quote:2. If you get comments saying something along the lines of "your sprite sucks", don't complain. Instead, look at your sprite and try to figure out why it sucks. If you still can't figure out why after some time has passed, CALMLY(that's the important part, don't want to get added to the list of threads up there, do you?) reply to the post requesting that the poster be more specific
See that? this is what I am explaining to you in some line of detail. you can easily get some clue of what you are doing if you self evaluate your own work. it's not hard at all as long as you know the terms and refrences you use, if that hasn't helped look up a tutorial on spriting, that isn't hard at all seeing the only thing you have to do is sit on your ass and look it up. No such thing as being lazy unless you don't do anything but sleep all day.
Another thing is that, if you can't take criticism the way it's given then you are absolutely fucked being an artist. This applies to anything, sprites, pixel art, a drawing, or even pissing on a wall. You have to take it as is, if you don't understand then look up the terms used, or at least find some sort of refrence for shading (or anything for that matter) on google like I said earlier, it won't hurt.
This seems to be what your problem is. you are not the first one to have this. But christ, seeing this everytime makes me cringe so fucking hard it makes me wish I could punch people through a monitor. Probably because it's just about annoying as pulling shit out of a rat's ass with your bear hands. the least you can do is take advice then argue with everyone.
Look, above everything to what I have said, we aren't here to be dicks, we want you to improve if you post here, but our paitence with people can and will dry if you try to argue with everyone. You're not gonna win and in the end you'll only embarrass yourself being a one poster army. don't take any of this the wrong way, but if you can't deal with the facts here you won't be lasting here as long as you thought you could.
that said:
Welcome back to TSR's spriting & pixel art board, I hope you can enjoy your stay and please don't try to fight us on the internet.
The problem was really that I know what pillow shading is, but I can't see it very well in this case. The difference in criticism, the way I see it, is that it tends to be more helpful for someone to point out a problem with a sprite, however harsh, and then suggest ways to fix it (and by that I mean specific ways, not just: "make it not pillow shaded". If I can't see the pillow shading in the first place, how am I to know what to do to the shading to make it not seem pillow shaded? My multiple edits are attempts at trial and error in finding how to do this), rather than just pointing out an problem and telling someone to fix it. The fact is that people tend to view their own work through rose tinted glasses, and even when someone points out a general problem, it can be difficult to find the offending aspect without details.
Honestly though, I have no idea why it didn't occur to me to look at some other RPG sprites for reference. It's a great starting point, so thanks for that.
While it's good that you will try to improve,. you still need to bear in mind that you have to take criticism as given. I made an edit to my post at least explaining on what you can do if someone says it isn't good,