The VG Resource

God why can't they just make Kirby's Dream Land 4

and re-release 3 so it'll go down in price.

(02-06-2011, 12:34 AM)Shadowth117 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-05-2011, 10:53 PM)Djanjo Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-02-2011, 09:08 PM)Shadowth117 Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say, I really wish they'd do another Kirby game where you can combine abilities like Crystal Shards did. I understand why they don't since it'd be a LOT of abilities to make combinations for a this point, but hey there's like 500 something Pokemon to animate and it gets done just fine in those games so I'm sure it could work.

Besides, UFO alone + anything else would probably kick ridiculous amounts of ass.

Woah woah woah, don't make it sound as if Gamefreak has a hard time animating 500 sprites when they have a pretty good budget and good (plentiful) staff.


I'm sure the great people at HAL Lab's have just as much if not more. No cop-outs please.

... that's exactly why I said it would hardly be an issue. Still, say you have 24 base abilities than you'd get like 576 combination abilities. It would hardly be impossible to do, but it'd be a bit harder than just making some sprites if they didn't want to half ass them since everything would have to be programmed in as well as like at least somewhat unique..

i can tell you the miracle of the last pokemon game having animated sprites is called "skeletal animation".

also the fuck you'll need 576 powers in a kirby game when we all have always since day one stick to the sword, wheel and their clones.

Haaaaaaaaammer.

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind a few new powers. I actually liked the Animal and Magic powers from Squeak Squad a lot (even though it was obvious that Tornado was the best power).

Maybe it's the length of a Kirby game? Maybe if it had another approach it could be longer thus having need for let's just say 1000 abilities? I don't want to say RPG but is there another way to make a Kirby game longer without being tedious or repetitive?

The problem isn't having shit-tons of abilities. As TF2 has shown us, you can continue adding things as much and as often as you want.

The main problem is having each ability be about equally useful while still being fairly unique.

In KDL3 and K64, there were a sizable number of abilities. However, a few of them were of limited use, a few of average use, and a few of use in just about every situation. I mean, the lightbulb combination (Spark + Bomb, I believe) was pretty much useful in just one or two places (the original Light ability was guilty of this as well). And if I remember correctly, there were several abilities that were even of no use at all, other than a few laughs (Spark + Fire & Fire + Ice, if I remember correctly).

As for Squeak Squad, it's problem is that it didn't quite go all the way. There were only a few abilities that could be combined with others, and even then, they could be combined only with elemental powers. And neither of them were really required to be used at all, meaning you could get through pretty much the whole game without combining abilities. Of course, I kinda breezed through the game (100% within a week) and I don't quite remember everything about it that well, so I could certainly be wrong here.

Now, as far as uniqueness goes, it becomes even harder when you have many more abilities to design (as one would likely expect). For example, as much as I like the idea of Clean ability, it turns out that in execution, it's pretty much just a clone of Sword, except that it cleans certain things, too. The problem with that is, well, there aren't many things to clean (in KDL3, anyways), so it essentially becomes just Sword ability. So, having both abilities in the same game creates needless duplication (unless Clean were to be redesigned; I guess you could redesign Sword instead, but I doubt that'd meet with as much popularity).

... I write text walls on Kirby games.

look at kirby super star, again. fewer skills with several abilities on each one become way more flexible ro deal with several scenarios, an each one grants an spectrum wide enough to let you make a decision on what you want to make of the game. without being forced to use this particular power for the most part. except the parts where you have to use fire/wheel powers, but even those two could be played with jet for example.

hell even the "copy" skill becomes useful in that game where kirby has to colect his powers back.

If partners return and if they get sad faces when you choose a different one over them, I'm going to feel awful again . I remember as a little kid feeling guilty and upset because the animals looked like they were about to cry.

What I liked about Kirby Superstar is that most of his powers had a lot of cool abilities that made them fun to use, even if others were plainly better. Case and point, Fire became a combination of several existing fire-related powers (breathing fire and shooting Kirby as a fireball) and added new moves too (same goes with Ice).

Yeah, pretty much what Metaru said, the fun thing about Kirby Superstar is because the powers had a bunch of attacks and moves on them, so if you wanted to, you could pick your favorite ability, be it because it's the coolest or because it's easier for you to use it, and just use it through most of the level, because they had a bunch of moves and attacks that you could use in a wide variety of situations. Even on some situational cases, that you have to use Fire, Wheel or Suplex, there was always some other ability that you could use instead on the same situation, in another way.

If only there was a way to actually motivate players to use all those abilities then maybe there will be some use for them. But there really isn't a way to do that unless you make the said Kirby game itself a hell lot more complex then the average games the series needs to be.

Not to mention Kirby games are simplistic anyways.

Kirby and the Crystal Shards required certain powers and combinations to get to various crystals. Sometimes, there wouldn't even be an enemy with that type of power in the whole level (more towards the later levels, though) so you'd have to play until the end of one level then play til you got the crystal in the other unless you already had the power.

(02-06-2011, 04:16 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]If only there was a way to actually motivate players to use all those abilities then maybe there will be some use for them.

the way to motivate a player to use a skill is to actually make it useful.

you can beat squeak squad completely with the animal and sword skills because they're the most versatile skills in the entire game.


Core Power with several actions > Several Powers with 1 action.

(02-06-2011, 05:37 PM)Fuchikoma Wrote: [ -> ]animal and sword skills ... most versatile skills in the entire game.

Not true. Tornado was so ridiculously overpowered that you were almost at no risk of even taking damage while using it. Sword and animal were versatile but not as much as tornado

(02-06-2011, 05:37 PM)Fuchikoma Wrote: [ -> ]Core Power with several actions > Several Powers with 1 action.

this I definitely agree with

(02-06-2011, 05:37 PM)Fuchikoma Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2011, 04:16 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]If only there was a way to actually motivate players to use all those abilities then maybe there will be some use for them.

the way to motivate a player to use a skill is to actually make it useful.

Hence why I brought up the statement to begin with.

Hell, your certainly right on the animal and sword abilities, Phantom K is right on the tornado. The rest of skills are practically pointless.

I honestly wish they started using obstacles that are practically designed for a specific skill, as long as those said objects aren't too complex they'll probably fit in well.

I have to give Squeak Squad credit though for a couple of things (I just picked it up cheap earlier this week, so I haven't beaten it yet..), and those are that the Animal power is cool, the Magic power is cool, and I kinda like the concept of finding items that beef up your abilities. For example, Cutter becomes really sick when you upgrade it, but at the same time it can only be thrown and doesn't feature any of the cool melee moves from Superstar, so it also feels like a downgrade.