The VG Resource

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(06-20-2012, 08:40 PM)PillowSledder Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, I respect your opinion, but I'm just going to disagree with it.

that was not an opinion. that was advice. solid advice, at that.

Quote:So I'm going to tell you my opinion. Are these sprites perfect? No.

nobody here is asking for perfection; we're asking that you work to make your sprites better, and that involves accepting and understanding constructive criticism, even if it's harsh.

Quote:Does a game need perfection? No, we have bugs and glitches on about every game ever made. Mine-Craft became successful, but look at it, are the sprites (aka skins) good? No! I'm not yelling, but maybe my idea of a game would be best if I made the sprites the way they are now.

so what you're basically saying is you don't want to fix the issues within your work because it looks fine to you personally? alright, cool. don't post it here if you don't want criticism. take it somewhere else.

Quote:Also, don't start with me on saying I'm a horrible spriter. You can't just say that, especially when every game has its own artistic way to represent its characters.

what are you even talking about? nobody came even close to saying this.

Quote:Please, next time when you post, actually try to not be so negative and down right mean.

hoeloe was never negative towards you. he may have been a bit harsh, but he was still giving constructive criticism (albeit not very specific criticism).

Quote:And yeah, They changed quite a bit since last time. Did you even look at them in 300% (Yes, the shading does pop out when magnified)?

you shouldn't have to zoom in on a sprite to see a major difference.

look, if you want to post sprites here, you should get used to criticism. you'll get it all the time, and it's important to listen to it so you can better understand how to make your sprites better and further your skills.

here's a bit to get you going: your walk animation? doesn't look like he's walking. he puts his leg out and then pulls it in through the same motion he put it out. try walking around and studying how your legs move. there are great walk cycle tutorials out there, and while i don't have any on hand, i'm sure somebody else here does. good luck with your stuff.

(06-20-2012, 08:40 PM)PillowSledder Wrote: [ -> ]Does a game need perfection? No, we have bugs and glitches on about every game ever made. Mine-Craft became successful, but look at it, are the sprites (aka skins) good? No! I'm not yelling, but maybe my idea of a game would be best if I made the sprites the way they are now.

Uhh, then why are you posting your sprites here? You have the right not to take the criticism you are receiving to heart, but in that case, it really makes no sense for you to be posting your work here. If the board's name doesn't make it obvious enough, this community revolves around spriting, therefore you're going to be given a lot of advice if you post anything you make here. Your argument would make plenty of sense, if, say, you were posting this on a Minecraft board, and somebody started talking to you about the sprites. Since the board you're in has nothing to really do with sprites, it would make sense. In this case, though? Uh...

And I mean, I'm really not one to talk, but, to be honest? From what I can see, your sprites do need a lot of work. When it comes to the main character, his anatomy is off, and some of the sprites look really odd when animated.

Just saying!

It's not just posting your sprites here, it's posting them at all.

What's the point of even asking people what they think if you clearly don't care about their opinion? We're not here to give you butt pats, we're here to tell you how to be better.

Yes, Minecraft might be successful, but it's still ugly. I don't think a single person here will deny that the programmer art looks bad. Why do you think many of the first mods available for minecraft were texture packs?

With that being said, I'll be blunt here. In terms of how you think your game looks, your opinion does not matter. If you're creating a game for -other people- to play, how are you going to reject them when they tell you there's a problem? The game isn't being made for just you. Out of everyone, your opinion matters probably the least, especially when compared to people who actually know what they're talking about in regards to sprites.

(By the way, bad art is not a bug in a game. Bad art is due to the artist (in this case, you) being lazy and not fixing it. Bugs are actual errors in the game that usually aren't caught until other people play it, which this is not. Don't even try to make that comparison.)

Alright everybody, If that's what you think. I mean, I haven't exactly had the most reliable answers from other sites, good or bad. I thought really hard about what you guys said about me not taking criticism well, and you're right, it's a pain in the neck. However, I hope that you all are willing to accept that there was a bit of misinterpretation here. I for one did contribute to it, but same with some of you. For that I am sorry and even more sorry (I admit it did sound childish) about how I am trying to explain this. Here it goes;

@ Thumbtacks
I can tell why you said you didn't like my attitude, but that was simply inferring. I'll tell you right now, I am not the best at talking. I don't even know if that makes sense! If you completely agree with Hoeloe, then how am I going to fix my sprites that I have? Starting all over won't help. Those who don't learn from a mistake are doomed to repeat it. The animation, well They are small sprites, you are not telling what I can do to fix that.

@ Crappy Blue Luigi
Opinion or advice, it almost is the worst advice you could possibly say to someone. It doesn't help and is useless because of so.

I'll give you the second one, but it was more of an example. Hey, I suck at making things organized.

The third one is just a false accusation. No, I want opinions, but they're not useful if no one is telling what I can do to fix what I already have. I never clearly said it looks fine to me, I even went out of the way to say that the wood texture for its corners could use work after they had been complimented. I want to keep the style is what I meant, my bad.

The next one was just what I thought Hoeloe was inferring, it may of been incorrect, but that can't be helped much if you don't back up your advice or opinion, it is easy to get confused what the person is really trying to say. You know what though, you're right, I shouldn't of added that in there, sorry.

I would Like to put as much emphasis on this as possible right now; YES! You have to enlarge it by 300%! When I put the sprites in the game, they will be about that size. I am not going to resize them as that would be just unneeded, at least till now, I don't know if it will be necessary. It sure saves a bit of memory space anyways. I mean look how little the sprites are, that is kind of hard to see on a computer game.

@ TheGreatGatsby
You know, I would actually of done that, but I said above that not all sites are reliable and I've seen the community there. Here, I know that I would get legit advice. I was just giving out another example there, and should I say it again? I suck at explaining things.

@ Vipershark
I went over some of this already so could you see that? Thanks. I actually do think Mine-Craft looked good the way it is. I know, it's your opinion and I'll just leave that there. I don't have a clue where you got that last part... Uh,... I never said there was a bug about the sprites. In any case, It is supposed to be simplistic and maybe I am lazy, but I have already said that no one is telling how to improve what I have already.

Sorry again about putting a dent in your day. That being you all, including you Hoeloe, really sorry there. I shouldn't of actually came to the forums because of my past experiences, but giving it one last go and another chance is always in order. Please think of this as an apology, I'm trying not to be a smart as. I did learn something though ! I still don't understand what is wrong with the anatomy, could you guys explain what I can do to fix it before I go?

(06-21-2012, 02:07 PM)PillowSledder Wrote: [ -> ]I would Like to put as much emphasis on this as possible right now; YES! You have to enlarge it by 300%! When I put the sprites in the game, they will be about that size. I am not going to resize them as that would be just unneeded, at least till now, I don't know if it will be necessary. It sure saves a bit of memory space anyways. I mean look how little the sprites are, that is kind of hard to see on a computer game.

You don't have to make such tiny sprites anyways I guess. Sprites of this size are hard as you have only that many pixels to create a readable and appealing sprite. If you want sprites of this scale, you might want to try drastically stylized graphics like in the Gameboy Zelda games. Anatomy is hard, especially on this scale (there's no way we could just tell you how to correct the anatomy issues in your sprites as anatomy is a complex topic you need to learn by analyzing it).
If you want to make games which are intended to be played at multiple scale resolution, you need to know how to get the best out of the few pixels you have If you want a good-looking result.
I can look at these at 300x and they still look off, if not even more so.

(06-21-2012, 02:07 PM)PillowSledder Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry again about putting a dent in your day. That being you all, including you Hoeloe, really sorry there. I shouldn't of actually came to the forums because of my past experiences, but giving it one last go and another chance is always in order. Please think of this as an apology, I'm trying not to be a smart as. I did learn something though ! I still don't understand what is wrong with the anatomy, could you guys explain what I can do to fix it before I go?

There is no proper anatomy is the problem, I'd say. Everything is blocky, extremities expand and shrink in animations, legs are incredibly short and too much like the bottom half of an X. Again, you might want to consider a more Zelda-like style to get around some these problems. Or you'd like a style without outlines as those take away a lot of pixels valuable for proportions.
Your colors are badly chosen, there's barely any contrast and the shading doesn't convey any volume. Check our spriting dictionary for some pointers and general knowledge.

Again, noone wants to attack you, we're just here to help. People might sound harsh. bnut sugarcoating doesn't help if you want to improve. It bugs us when our criticism seems to hit a dead end as we usually know what we're talking about and spriters showing their work here are assumed to do so in order to get some advice (even in the GameDev area). It's true that we often fail to give proper advice, but knowing there is a problem with an aspect is half the solution. In some cases, it suffices to point to an error to make the creator see what's wrong and finding a solution yourself is sometimes more rewarding. Besides we don't even know where to start when you post tons of sprites at a time, it's better when you pick something to focus on (which has already been stated here) (not a whole sheet, not a full animation, start with a single still sprite).

As soon as you're saying you don't care much about how it looks, you're telling us you don't want our help which makes us wonder why you show us your sprites. When you come here with your sprites, it doesn't matter if your opinion is that bad sprites are alright. It's art and thus subjective, sure, but techniques can be analyzed objectively and there are always some "rules" to follow, may it be traditional art or pixels.

If you want to get better, you'll have to put work into it. I repeat: Take a single sprite and try to optimize it before moving on to animations and full sheets. If you can't do the one properly, you can only fail at the other. They're dependencies.