The VG Resource

We aren't bashing, we're trying to tell you what needs fixing and whatnot but... I guess I'll take it upon myself to be specific (again, I'm not the best person to be commenting on this but I'll try to narrow down some of the most crucial points). So to start, do you notice how you're shading in gradients? This does not show depth or volume in the art (as others have suggested, try looking up artwork from different people to get an idea of how they shade). To fix this I would suggest trying to shade without using tons of different shades of a color, or the use of blur/smudging tools as this is what makes it appear blurry. Just the paintbrush, or something. Also make sure there is enough difference in your shading (contrast), so that it is noticable. Basically make sure it's dark or light enough to see well. Also utilize hueshift! Here's a small explanation of it:

Spriting Dictionary Wrote:HUESHIFT- Hue shift, as the name implies, is shifting the hue.
[Image: color-wheel-300.gif]
look at this wheel. rather than increasing or decreasing a color's saturation, or its Contrast, you switch to the color to the right or the left on this wheel. Notice also that colors on the exact oposite of the wheel also work as a darker/lighter version of your color. A more dinamic and natural palette of colors is the result of a proper hueshift.
Note: HUESHIFTING can be combined(an to an extent, has to) with CONTRAST and SATURATION in order to produce a wider vaiery of results.
(for an indepth reading on how colors work, read this wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_theory )

You seem to be following your lightsources at least, sort of, but we cannot see your art as a 3D object cause the gradients make it look flat. After you you do a bit of studying and take another attempt at fixing this, we'll tell you what else can be improved on.

Bashing...? I think you're like, severely misunderstanding the point of this forum. It's not to show off and get pats on the back (usually...), it's generally here for giving criticism and helping each other improve. Do you look at other threads? Because the same stuff happens there.

It seems really silly to feel like your shading is "near-flawless." It sounds like you want to do art just to show off and feel cool instead of trying to get better. Have you ever looked back at old art you did and thought to yourself, "man, how did I ever think that looked good?" Well, you should! Because you should keep improving. Trying to be in a perpetual state of "near-flawless"...that just doesn't happen. To pretty much anyone.

Does it feel like a daunting task to become a better artist? Well, it really is. That's something you should accept and expect. That attitude where you feel like you've done it already is really only ever going to hold you back.

If you really want to be better, you have to study. Doodling around and convincing yourself that you made an awesome style without really putting the work into it is a great way to become a stagnant artist. Do you think people become good artists by figuring things out on their own without ever consulting the knowledge stored by the rest of humanity for thousands of years? That's a pretty rare feat that you'd best be humble enough not to attempt.

There's tons of knowledge out there that can help you get better. Study from life, draw from life, order books on amazon, Google tutorials, study other peoples' artwork, or whatever you're willing to try. You should focus on figuring out how light and shadow works and how volumes and shapes and anatomy work before trying to learn super cool texture techniques to cover up your lack of knowledge in these respects.

(07-07-2013, 02:59 PM)Axle the Red Wrote: [ -> ]We aren't bashing, we're trying to tell you what needs fixing and whatnot but... I guess I'll take it upon myself to be specific (again, I'm not the best person to be commenting on this but I'll try to narrow down some of the most crucial points). So to start, do you notice how you're shading in gradients? This does not show depth or volume in the art (as others have suggested, try looking up artwork from different people to get an idea of how they shade). To fix this I would suggest trying to shade without using tons of different shades of a color, or the use of blur/smudging tools as this is what makes it appear blurry. Just the paintbrush, or something. Also make sure there is enough difference in your shading (contrast), so that it is noticable. Basically make sure it's dark or light enough to see well. Also utilize hueshift! Here's a small explanation of it:

Spriting Dictionary Wrote:HUESHIFT- Hue shift, as the name implies, is shifting the hue.
[Image: color-wheel-300.gif]
look at this wheel. rather than increasing or decreasing a color's saturation, or its Contrast, you switch to the color to the right or the left on this wheel. Notice also that colors on the exact oposite of the wheel also work as a darker/lighter version of your color. A more dinamic and natural palette of colors is the result of a proper hueshift.
Note: HUESHIFTING can be combined(an to an extent, has to) with CONTRAST and SATURATION in order to produce a wider vaiery of results.
(for an indepth reading on how colors work, read this wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_theory )

You seem to be following your lightsources at least, sort of, but we cannot see your art as a 3D object cause the gradients make it look flat. After you you do a bit of studying and take another attempt at fixing this, we'll tell you what else can be improved on.

This is all I need to know for now. So, it's a taboo to use feather shading in art, huh? I feel very sad to let it go because I like the feather shading and it gives me a reason not to use outlines, but it's for the best...

Don't worry! I like the help you guys are giving me! I'll look into this hue shifting since that's the best way to achieve the kind of shading you're looking for and I'll show you a sample of the fruits of my labors!

Eureka! It took a bit of time to do, but I created my first attempt at hue shifting! Please forgive me if I didn't act the way you wanted me to when you gave me the critique.

Anyway, this is the fruits of my labor! Since it's a little big, I decided to place it into a spoiler.
Now then, let me talk about each style of shading shown.

On the far left, we see how I used to shade ever since I decided to adopt a new style. I find the feather shading very appealing (especially since it gives me an excuse never to use outlines again), but since hardly anybody prior to this told me that this isn't the way to go, I thought for certain that I reached my peak as an artist and there is hardly anything else I could do about it... Turns out I was dead wrong. I gotta stop underestimating the gap between my style and the perfect style. I'm very sorry this lead to any huge ego problems.

Since I missed using feather shading and I don't really want to go to a style that requires me to use outlines without a fight, I decided to work that sucker to death and crank it up to the max! They said that it was really hard to see my highlights and shading, so I decided to stop fooling around and make my highlights and shading intense! I only held back because I was afraid that my highlights and shading would look awful if I went too far, but if what this old style needs is to get an extra kick, then what's the harm for going over the edge?

The star attraction of this experiment is right of my extreme example of feather shading! This is my attempt at hue shifting, which is what my previous style lacked. I was told that blurring the values was bad, so I stuck to a style similar to cel shading. I understand that this is probably what it's supposed to look like, but are you sure this looks right? Just having solid patches of colors to show the shading and highlights just doesn't look right to me. Am I supposed to add more color patches, or do I need to add less of them and just use a big bright orange highlight and a big dark purple shade?

Finally, we have an example of what most people would not like. I was very unhappy with how the shading and highlights of the previous example are separate and don't seem to blend together. Against the wishes of many of the people on tSR, I decided to use the blur tool on the highlights and shading I did on the previous example and....... POW! The hideous shading and highlight job I did before actually started to look better in my eyes! If this works, this could be my new style for now on! All I need to work out is how I'm going to apply textures in this state. The way I did hair and fur was the biggest advantage of my old style, so finding a way to do it in this new style is a priority.


Could you please tell me what you think of how I'm doing it now? By the way, when I looked at the grey, I noticed how all I did was just use shades of black and white for the highlights and shading. Since that doesn't appear to be in the spirit of hue shifting, what would you say about the use of orange for the highlights and blue for the shading? Besides, since I recall from Full Sail that orange and blue are complementary colors on the color wheel, I think this is a natural choice.

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]I know you would just ignore my artwork because I'm in the shadows of the more popular spriters and I might have a bit of a bad reputation,

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]I thought for sure that I worked out all the kinks in my art style and created a style that anyone can like

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]I think the way I shade could work in nearly any situation,

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]If only I could really understand those muscles in a way that would please everyone.

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking that I could never get a style that most people would look up to

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]I'm finally back with more artwork to share that I'm certain some of you might actually enjoy!

(05-26-2013, 09:31 PM)E-Man Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe there's a least one person out there who actually likes this style as it currently is.

I don't think you're using this forum correctly!!
The Spriters Resource art community exists to help artists improve and help others. You're treating your art as a way to get notoriety and acceptance, which shouldn't be the case!
This isn't the place to try to please other artists so that they may one day finally """accept""" you--we're here to help other artists grow, and hopefully grow ourselves! Aside from moderators and admins (which really doesn't count because they're 100% necessary to keep this place afloat), there is no hierarchy of people based on artistic aptitude.
If wanting to improve to please yourself and make you proud of your work isn't enough, then honestly it'll be nearly impossible to grow as an artist because there is no way to please everyone. Everyone has different tastes, so it's impossible to create the PERFECT style, because someone is bound to dislike it in some way.

Another thing--try to avoid treating art as an exact science. Sure, there are set techniques and classifications of art, tools, styles, colors, etc., but a lot of "talent" found in artists is from their ability to create something out of the tools they have, and being able to work with colors, lines, and forms in creative ways to achieve interesting outcomes. There is no "shading method" for every work, so please stop trying to find one, because every piece is unique--not only in idea, but in the technique.

Don't be afraid to experiment! 90% of the time my best works (In my opinion--some people might like my other works!) come from my experimentation and doodling around, which turns into something better. Art is very fluid--there isn't always a set method to achieve what you want. Rather than take Gors' color and anatomy advice as literal as possible, consider them while you experiment until you find something you enjoy.

At the same time, though, criticism from other people is necessary, because artists (myself especially) often get too proud of their works to openly accept all points of view possible. Rather than doing what people recommend to please them, consider they're advice that they've given to you to help you improve.

I can't stress any of these points enough, but at the same time I am not trying to discourage you to keep trying! More than anything, don't get stuck into a motion or pattern that you're afraid to break free from, because that's a surefire way to remain stagnant. There is no way to please everyone, but at the same time make sure to consider the advice these people here have created especially for you.

Have fun with art! It shouldn't be so methodical, because it stifles room for experimentation and growth.

Sorry if I'm sounding so preachy, but I see potential in you, and I don't want you to get stuck in a pattern of trying to please everyone around you because it just isn't worth it.

Don't give up!!

Also, (because I'd feel silly and slightly hypocritical not talking about your most recent shading tests) I think the reason people want you to avoid feather-shading at the moment is because it's largely done by a computer algorithm. It can be done really effectively in a variety of ways, but in terms of technique, it tends to be a crutch for beginners. When I practiced shading, I actually found pixel art to be very helpful because it forced me to convey volume in a readable way with few colors.
It also creates in-between colors between values, which is important to do on your own.
Your third row shows progress, but I think the "shadows" you're trying to use are too light compared to the original color. You can't assume that different hues have the same brightness values. Yellow and Purple at the same brightness value are very different (which is why yellow markers don't show up well on white paper but purple does). Generally (very generally), in lightness yellow is brightest, with purple the darkest, and going either left or right to purple gets progressively darker.

All of these hues have a luminosity value of 120 (same brightness ideally), and it shows you that some colors appear brighter than others, where closer to purple is dark, and closer to yellow is light. Pink, for whatever reason, is somewhat of a wildcard--it's somewhat brighter than red, so I'd generally go darker with pinks if they're a red shadow. Yellow is brightest, while purple-blue is darkest (generally speaking again).

Hopefully this makes sense--I'm going to stop now because I feel I'm getting too tangential

Good luck!!

writing this at work while listening to Kyary so there may be some typos and shit

but the thing is (and I hope you got this after all those posts):

1: we aren't art masters at all. we're like you in hierarchy, and even if we did draw like gods (something that doesn't exist per se), we wouldn't see new members as 'worse' than us, or anyone else. That's dumb.

2: art is not math. In the sense that 2+2 will always be 4, and 10 centimeters will be 10 centimeters anywhere you go in this world. Art is something more variable, you can't, mustn't and will never find the perfect style. It simply doesn't exist. What you can do though is to build up on the number of styles you can do, in order to become more versatile. Every piece asks for a certain style, and therefore you must be at constant learning.

3: if you want to be praised, go to deviantart (I think I say this way too much already). Praise is good and all but expecting them in every little thing you do is being a pain on the nuts. As I said before, we are here to become better at art and we don't become good by dishing out "you're great" and "amazing!!" all the time. Life is harsh when coming to this stuff, and so is this thread. Art is not a magic epiphanistic thing that you suddenly 'get better' at; you need to practice and study a lot to be good at it.

4: Everyone here starts with 0 reputation. What does this mean? Well, it means that you are not inherently bad or good when you start out. You are a neutral being and you build up your recognition, little by little. And this does not happen by trying to outdo yourself in an unrealistic manner just to surprise us. Just be yourself, mind yourself, don't cry askng for c+c ; it happens eventually. tSR is also a place to hang out with people, feel free to make friends.

5: Take notes of everything I (we) wrote in this thread, reread them and replace tSR, art, members as necessary: those tips are common sense and should help you in everything you try, do and work.

Thank you! I'm very glad you were able to share this wonderful information with me! I guess I honestly do have to stop being a worrywart and break my legs in two just to impress you guys.

As always, though, I'll continue to look into new styles to get more under my belt. I'm happy with the experimental styles I picked up and crosshatching, but if there's a style that you would like me to try, such as pointillism, I'll see about looking into it! Since it doesn't exist, trying to find a perfect style is pointless, so why not try as many as I could?

By the way, I'm not sure how you guys would react to this, but I tend to show my styles to Michael Sanborn (one of my art professors in college) to get his approval. Since he had a lot of experience in the business and he is extremely respected by his peers, Professor Sanborn knows what he's talking about. Due to his good advice, that a primary reason why I go through so much trouble to get a great art style. Just recently, though, he approved of them and applaud me for investigating new styles. I'm not saying any of this to boost my reputation and show that my style is "perfect" (like we stated before, there is no perfect style). I'm only pointing this out because I'm very active about improving myself to the point where I ask for professional help. You should try meeting Professor Sanborn, though. He's a really nice guy!

In any case, I highly appreciate the advice you keep giving me up to this point! Stay frosty, guys!

EDIT: Oh! And before I forget... I was wondering if you guys would like a request or two drawn by me. Why not? It'll give me an excuse to practice some new techniques and you'll get free artwork. Sounds good?

Hey, I'm back! I was away for awhile, but I'm ready to show some of my newest pictures! I kept the concept of hue shifting in mind on these more recent pieces, so I hope you like what you see!




I was a little stumped on what you guys mean by the "beveled" look, but after taking a look at the pig and tiger suits, I stated to see your point. At that point, I didn't know what to do, but when I looked at a CGI render of a Koopa that I found in order to draw construction shapes over, I think I found a solution. You know how shiny balls tend to have that circular highlight? Well, without the highlight, the ball would look a bit beveled. I was avoiding that solution for the longest time because I thought only shiny objects are allowed to have that type of highlight. For my next project, I'm thinking of somehow incorporating those types of highlights, but I think I'll keep them subtle to avoid making an object look too shiny.