Most of Subspace's unique assets were boring as hell. I wanted more crossover stuff.
(07-26-2013, 01:17 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2013, 08:36 AM)Terminal Devastation Wrote: [ -> ]Only time will tell, but I'd be cool with the game lacking an adventure mode if at least one of three things happen due to lacking it:
1)A LOT more event battles than previous games. They were fun, and were often a new way to play. In other words getting creative with the mechanics.
I don't mind that there's only 51-53 events in Brawl, it was at least the same amount of events as melee. Although, something like Custom Events would sound really fun in this case.
2)They used the extra space for more everything for the base game. Like roster count. Or even just trophies... LOTS AND LOTS OF TROPHIES.[/align]
I'd rather see the empty space go towards more stages, and more ways to collect trophies....
And also bringing back board the platforms, unique character target test stages, and race to the finish. Hell I'll be glad with a more creative stage builder.
3)Adventure/subspace mode is split off into a completely separate game, so they can balance the characters soley for adventure mode fun.
Go play kirby if you want an adventure mode, that's practically what brawl's subspace was.
Up until your response to option three, I was in agreement or at least understood the point of view, since we're on the same page of "if they don't have an adventure mode" at least use the extra development time to give us better and more of what's left.
That last response completely missed the point, though. If one wants a
game that plays like subspace, yes kirby is basically that. It's pretty easy to see there's a modded kirby engine there (which makes sense considering who's developing it, and that kirby games seem to have a mix of a lot of other nintendo platforms mechanics in the first place) (I suspect it's the same one as return to dreamland in fact.)
However, if one wants adventure/subspace mode as a separate game... the important part is actually
Nintendo characters of various origins interacting in a psuedo story setting... or at least in a different game setting than a fighter not the underlying engine. I don't care if its a platformer, adventure game, FPS, strategy game or even shoot'em up. I'd assume they'd use the same kirby like engine if they did so... but any other option would be fine. Smash bros is about the crossover, so any smash bros spinoffs would ALSO be about the crossover, with a solid game underneath.
Sakurai just said it wouldn't have any story mode or story mode cutscenes a.k.a. every other smash besides Brawl, and I'm kinda glad. Subspace Emmissary took up like 50% of the disk space and was quite boring. The cutscenes were cool and well done, but not exactly interesting.
I'm glad he's controling expectations this time, so people won't go apeshit when things aren't in the game.
Talking about expectations, those were the reason he left Nintendo after Kirby's Air Ride. He was tired of people (Nintendo and the fans) expecting sequel after sequel from him. So his approach here makes a lot of sense, more so after the reaction people got from Brawl, which I kinda think, while it sold well, that he was disappointed.
Cutscenes were fun... once. But its the actual multiplayer brawling that kept me coming back to play again and again.
the only good thing to come out of SSE was Lucario unboxing snake, and the awesome unholy team up of King dedede, Ness, and Luigi.
Why not make a game around those 3 instead Sakurai?
(07-27-2013, 11:24 AM)Terminal Devastation Wrote: [ -> ]However, if one wants adventure/subspace mode as a separate game... the important part is actually Nintendo characters of various origins interacting in a psuedo story setting... or at least in a different game setting than a fighter not the underlying engine. I don't care if its a platformer, adventure game, FPS, strategy game or even shoot'em up. I'd assume they'd use the same kirby like engine if they did so... but any other option would be fine. Smash bros is about the crossover, so any smash bros spinoffs would ALSO be about the crossover, with a solid game underneath.
But lets be honest, the only reason why anyone gave a shit about something like Subspace was because it was in smash bros.
And that's it. If it wasn't for smash bros, the only people who would be into this are kids who are interested in fan fictions. It'd be more of a gamble to make a crossover an entirely separate game based around a huge crossover like that without making the story complete garbage.
That isn't to say I don't think it can't be done, after all crossovers that have 2-3 series together work fine. But if there is going to be some huge crossover like SSB then it should be kept simple without any story. This is one of the reasons why I didn't like SSE
A story based cross-over would be fine for an RPG or adventure game but it doesn't work for Smash.
Everyone knows that
these bastards are why Subspace was terrible.
Nah, but really, I'm glad to see Sakurai isn't going to pursue a story mode for SSBfWu/3DS; Subspace tried to take itself too seriously (beyond its little goofy moments, natch), the Smash-style gameplay does not lend itself well to platforming stages, and SS took up far too much of Brawl's content. Oh, and SS was pretty damn boring, at least in my experience. Worst thing is, it was still probably the quickest way to unlock most of the hidden characters.
(07-28-2013, 01:28 AM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2013, 11:24 AM)Terminal Devastation Wrote: [ -> ]However, if one wants adventure/subspace mode as a separate game... the important part is actually Nintendo characters of various origins interacting in a psuedo story setting... or at least in a different game setting than a fighter not the underlying engine. I don't care if its a platformer, adventure game, FPS, strategy game or even shoot'em up. I'd assume they'd use the same kirby like engine if they did so... but any other option would be fine. Smash bros is about the crossover, so any smash bros spinoffs would ALSO be about the crossover, with a solid game underneath.
But lets be honest, the only reason why anyone gave a shit about something like Subspace was because it was in smash bros.
And that's it. If it wasn't for smash bros, the only people who would be into this are kids who are interested in fan fictions. It'd be more of a gamble to make a crossover an entirely separate game based around a huge crossover like that without making the story complete garbage.
That isn't to say I don't think it can't be done, after all crossovers that have 2-3 series together work fine. But if there is going to be some huge crossover like SSB then it should be kept simple without any story. This is one of the reasons why I didn't like SSE
I'm not so sure. The original smash bros appeal was intiallly just it being a cross over. That's its hook. The fact it turned out to solid game underneath is what allowed it to succeed, but it would likely have been a sleeper rather than the giant hit without its crossover aspect. I'm think the same would be true for any massive crossover game. As long as there's a solid fun game underneath, it'd work out, even with a stupid story (provided it doesn't take itself seriously if the story is bad). Subspace just wasn't as fun as it needed to be (And really, it was pretty light on story too).
I suppose there's no accounting for taste though. I'd personally welcome a story based nintendo crossover.
(07-28-2013, 01:28 AM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]But lets be honest, the only reason why anyone gave a shit about something like Subspace was because it was in smash bros.
And that's it. If it wasn't for smash bros, the only people who would be into this are kids who are interested in fan fictions.
Let's be honest,
"Kids who like fan fic" is actually a huge demographic.
(07-28-2013, 02:54 AM)BullockDS Wrote: [ -> ]Worst thing is, it was still probably the quickest way to unlock most of the hidden characters.
Speaking of which, at least three of the characters you needed to unlock relied on you beating SSE. And they didn't even have any significance to it's story. In general it was a pretty huge bitch to deal with.
(07-28-2013, 01:29 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2013, 02:54 AM)BullockDS Wrote: [ -> ]Worst thing is, it was still probably the quickest way to unlock most of the hidden characters.
Speaking of which, at least three of the characters you needed to unlock relied on you beating SSE. And they didn't even have any significance to it's story. In general it was a pretty huge bitch to deal with.
You could also unlock Toon Link/Jigglypuff/Wolf through two other means each (assuming you were talking about these three): playing absurd amounts of multiplayer matches*, or completing various single-player tasks after beating SSE (e.g. you could also unlock Wolf through beating the Boss Battles as Falco/Fox). In the end, SSE was still the most convenient method for those three, and at least they had an excuse to feel "shoehorned" in to SSE, which is more than can be said for certain blue blurs.
*which, to be fair, weren't nearly as fuckawful high as the totals for some of Melee's characters (1000 matches for mr game and watch eat my ass)
Didn't you have to beat SSE before you played that crazy amount of vs. matches for Wolf, Jigglypuff, and Toon Link?
correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that was the case.
(07-28-2013, 03:53 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't you have to beat SSE before you played that crazy amount of vs. matches for Wolf, Jigglypuff, and Toon Link?
correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that was the case.
It very well may be; I've just never seen any of the listings that have the match-count requirements mention the need to beat SSE. I wouldn't personally know either since with both of my copies I unlocked everybody IN SSE.
EDIT: Seems Kriven got to the bottom of this.
(07-28-2013, 03:53 PM)Diogalesu Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't you have to beat SSE before you played that crazy amount of vs. matches for Wolf, Jigglypuff, and Toon Link?
correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that was the case.
I didn't have to complete SSE when I unlocked them via vs. matches.