The VG Resource

(04-24-2014, 07:49 PM)Kat Wrote: [ -> ]I think the newest member that even made a huge impact is Level 1. Mighty Jetters was the one previous to that, whom has stuck out.


Anyway yeah things are slower around here however I do hope to be of help and changing this. No this is not the particlar reason why I'm on the staff again, but being in a position of power helps again.

Level 1 is in no way new: he was here under the name 2-D before, at least since 2010. I wouldn't say he made a huge impact, but he has stood out from his activity, amongst others.

(04-25-2014, 07:30 AM)Paladin Wrote: [ -> ]@Kat I wouldn't say Iocus hasn't made an impact just because he doesn't post as much. He has less posts, but they are often superb critique or great art in the spriting section. Iocus is a nice guy, and one of the newest users to continue spriting after the first two weeks. And really, I hope we get more members who sprite, because I personally feel that the artists/programmers are the ones making the biggest impact.

It's funny because I kind of feel the exact opposite - and I was going to post about that in the Fighter's Resource thread before realizing it was actually a much bigger issue.

We have a lot of content creators (GORS!!!!!!) who are very ambitious content creators, and compose music and create lots of art.

Honestly, it feels as if more of us are art-inclined and excited about art assets more than the average person, and hang out around art-inclined communities (like DeviantArt and, to an extent, Tumblr) ...and that's also our Achilles' heel as a community passionate about game creation. :/

It feels almost ironic, too given that I'd think aspiring game programmers would come here to acquire resources (like, pretty much golbez22 with A Really Retro Game)

Why does it seem though that when we have a programmer come and ask for things, we suggest they make their own assets, whereas we make our own assets and have no programmers ):








i kinda wonder if this is literally how zun felt when he rolled out of bed and made touhou.
and now look at touhou. why the hell do people love touhou.

(04-25-2014, 09:02 AM)Lexou Duck Wrote: [ -> ]then i noticed you joined in 2012, were you even posting back then ?

Yes, but not so much, because I was mostly lurking other threads (like the Banjo Sprite Project)

(04-19-2014, 09:41 AM)Sevenstitch Wrote: [ -> ]I miss the great stuff that used to pump out of this place, and when everyone was getting along, it was great,
But the overwhelming hostility scared me into not posting for over 2 years, I'd never really used a forum before this one, really dangerous waters to venture for a first timer

TSR was my first forum, too
only I wish I was as aware as you were back then
in fact it was the debut of my internet days once I decided to expand past Facebook
I originally joined because I had gotten into the hobby of ripping sprites and wanted to submit them, so I joined the forum to do that (prior to this I didn't even know TSR had a forum)
I had joined in January '11, but didn't post until February to submit my rips, and it wasn't until late March that I started to explore the forum past the Resource sections

it was then I was met with assholeyness unlike any I'd ever seen, as you could imagine if you knew my history here
I was very new to the internet, and during this time I was at a "midpoint" in my past life
I was sheltered to a sickening extent and as a result of this I had no social experience, thus why I was so awkward and defensive
I didn't know how to socialize, and it showed. as a result I was often the laughing stock of the old asshat users (and most everyone else, really) and also criticized for being "too nice" (because of this I stood out a lot)
things were really rough for me up until late '11

that's when people started realizing that nice people do exist, so they started warming up to me
and once I started learning things, I became a good member and before I knew it, a moderator
I actually don't know why I stayed, but maybe it was because there were a few good-hearted people here who understood and supported me
I guess one important thing to remember is never to give up even if things are rough
all in all, I didn't have a very good introduction to the internet here, but I guess it turned out to be a good thing that I dived in as a fresh internet user
because it's helped me realize what life even is, how to make my own decisions, and perhaps even played a role in me getting a new life.
TSR pretty much changed my life drastically.

(04-25-2014, 09:02 AM)Lexou Duck Wrote: [ -> ]matter of fact i was gonna say your name paladin

then i noticed you joined in 2012, were you even posting back then ?

Considering that you mentioned a user like Paladin just now, Lexou, it actually serves as a good segue into a point I would like to mention.

While it is true that Level 1 (even though he was here before under the name 2-D) and Iocus are the two newest members that made the biggest impact, I've been noticing that a few "veterans" on this site have been making a splash. For example, even though Sevenstitch joined in 2010, he didn't begin actively posting until 2012. Sure, while it would be nice to keep raking in new users, it makes me wonder how much the lurkers on this forum would actually contribute if they finally get around to actually posting. Also, it's not just them that would make a difference. If I'm not mistaken, I think there was at least a small handful of successful members who were once the kind of newbies who created mediocre sprites and asked for requests and then left the site before coming back a while later. Considering this factor, trying to get those kind of users who left the site back and tempering them into better users wouldn't hurt, right?

It's as simple as this: people won't come back unless they want to.

So you have to determine several things:
1. what is inhibiting newbies from posting
2. why they leave
3. why they come back

I initially joined in 2008, then left for a year before creating a new account and taking things a bit more seriously. What brought me back? I was more mature, more skilled and felt at the same level as a group of users, with a common interest, too! I was looking forward to seeing their stuff and making my own.

Also, one last thing: why are we deploring and trying to bring back users who have left? I think it's a waste of energy. We should be focussing on who's here and making this forum an awesome place, then perhaps will those who have left creep back in.

(04-25-2014, 09:37 AM)Kosheh Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny because I kind of feel the exact opposite - and I was going to post about that in the Fighter's Resource thread before realizing it was actually a much bigger issue.

We have a lot of content creators (GORS!!!!!!) who are very ambitious content creators, and compose music and create lots of art.

Honestly, it feels as if more of us are art-inclined and excited about art assets more than the average person, and hang out around art-inclined communities (like DeviantArt and, to an extent, Tumblr) ...and that's also our Achilles' heel as a community passionate about game creation. :/

I'm not sure how this exactly opposes Paladin's opinion, nor do I really get where you're getting at. Are you saying there's too many artists, and that's a bad thing?

Or are you maybe saying that we need more programmers to compensate?
In which case, Paladin did consider programmers as valuable members as well.
I would agree, then, that a load of assets are not a lot more than pretty things to look at without someone with technical knowledge to give them practical value.

(04-25-2014, 09:37 AM)Kosheh Wrote: [ -> ]It feels almost ironic, too given that I'd think aspiring game programmers would come here to acquire resources (like, pretty much golbez22 with A Really Retro Game)

Why does it seem though that when we have a programmer come and ask for things, we suggest they make their own assets, whereas we make our own assets and have no programmers ):

I'd say this is a bit of a complicated issue on its own.
After all, more than a few of the artists here all have their own agendas, their own projects they want to accomplish.
Game designers (programmer or not) on the exterior might have the notion that the artists here are an expendable resource; you just come in, holler, gather some, and profit.
Thing is, unless the outsider's pitch is something outstandingly attractive, nobody is going to want to commit to something like that, especially for free.
In fact, most of the projects that have surfaced on the game dev forum seem to be born from a completely collaborative process, so the idea is developed by all the parties involved. In that case, it's safe to say that being acquainted with the programmer or the game designer in general is a prerequisite for the artist to accept joining, as well as having a say (or several) in the design process.
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Also, it'd be nice if we didn't turn this into a popularity contest or something.
I, for one, am not especially concerned on whether Kat has heard of me or not (maybe she doesn't hang out often around the creativity forums or something, I dunno!), it's not like it's my job to be this great ol' savior or superstar and compete with the other new members for that title.
In fact, I don't have any special job around here at all! I'm just a member like any other. That said, I do agree with Paladin that gauging someone's contribution to the community just by their number of posts is a little...skewed, especially when it's a multimedia community like this one.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like I took too long posting and the topic has drifted, oh well

i think sevenstitch (or someone else idk) said something along the lines of what about to say before but yeah

i think the frequency of new arrivals is never gonna skyrocket no matter what community changes are made, said community changes will just play a part in keeping people active

the big factor here is that most people who'll like to come look at the site and furthermore the forum are people with a passion for sprites/pixelart
and that's gonna keep on getting rarer and rarer since fewer and fewer games are made with sprites, so kids won't be reeled in the same way
i mean of course there are plenty of retro fanatics, even among the younger people who grew up with the wii and such, but naturally not as much as among people who grew up in the SNES era or anything (i myself am a pretty rare case seeing as i grew up with the Gamecube more than anything, though i had the GBA and DS to get to see sprites)
the more we advance through time, the more the median age of the forum is growing older and older and since older people tend to leave for a wide variety of reasons i think the site is pretty much doomed to undergo a progressive decrease in activity

after that's been said, the important thing is to reflect upon what changes in mentality we as a userbase can adopt to entice people into staying

(04-25-2014, 11:16 AM)Iocus Wrote: [ -> ]Also, it'd be nice if we didn't turn this into a popularity contest or something.
I, for one, am not especially concerned on whether Kat has heard of me or not

yo i havent even seen this username, who is this guy
j/k

(04-25-2014, 11:16 AM)Iocus Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2014, 09:37 AM)Kosheh Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny because I kind of feel the exact opposite - and I was going to post about that in the Fighter's Resource thread before realizing it was actually a much bigger issue.

We have a lot of content creators (GORS!!!!!!) who are very ambitious content creators, and compose music and create lots of art.

Honestly, it feels as if more of us are art-inclined and excited about art assets more than the average person, and hang out around art-inclined communities (like DeviantArt and, to an extent, Tumblr) ...and that's also our Achilles' heel as a community passionate about game creation. :/

I'm not sure how this exactly opposes Paladin's opinion, nor do I really get where you're getting at. Are you saying there's too many artists, and that's a bad thing?

Or are you maybe saying that we need more programmers to compensate?
In which case, Paladin did consider programmers as valuable members as well.
I would agree, then, that a load of assets are not a lot more than pretty things to look at without someone with technical knowledge to give them practical value.

yeah, you pretty much got this right. too much art, too few programmers. we've got a ton of assets [kept typing this without the t originally to fix my typo - oops!] but without programmers that stuff isn't gonna be very practical. And we very, very direly need programmers because we sure as heck have enough artists, but how are we going to attract programmers if our whole premise is to maintain a giant library of visual (and sound) assets

We need like, "The Programmer's Notepad" in the VGR network to complete the cycle, lol

If this site is going to incorporate one more section, then I think it should be a place to store bits and pieces of coding that could be copied and pasted into engines to create more games. In fact, there could even be full engines for users to take and modify them to how they see fit.

Beisdes, a lot of the best spriters had their start creating crude sprite edits, so it would be great to provide an equivalent of that for new coders.

(04-25-2014, 01:20 PM)Kosheh Wrote: [ -> ]We need like, "The Programmer's Notepad" in the VGR network to complete the cycle, lol

as much as that would be amazing, pretty much no one releases their source code and i dont think its even possible to reverse engineer the binary data back into readable code

and even then most of the games would be in ASM language which is anything but a pleasure to code in or read


though as i said in a thread of mine at some point, something that would benefit the site a lot imo would be to use the VG resource to be a resource of people having worked on games
like each game would have its credits put onto the site, and each video game dev would have his own page listing basic info, link to portfolios or something and games he/she has been credited in, what kind of work was done, etc

(04-25-2014, 01:41 PM)Lexou Duck Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2014, 01:20 PM)Kosheh Wrote: [ -> ]We need like, "The Programmer's Notepad" in the VGR network to complete the cycle, lol

as much as that would be amazing, pretty much no one releases their source code and i dont think its even possible to reverse engineer the binary data back into readable code

and even then most of the games would be in ASM language which is anything but a pleasure to code in or read


though as i said in a thread of mine at some point, something that would benefit the site a lot imo would be to use the VG resource to be a resource of people having worked on games
like each game would have its credits put onto the site, and each video game dev would have his own page listing basic info, link to portfolios or something and games he/she has been credited in, what kind of work was done, etc

oh, oops, doy, i should have been a lot more clear on that.
of course it'd all be user submitted - but imagine like, gamemaker snippets for jump heights, etc.
imagine like those cookbooks that tell you how to make big macs and KFC chicken right in your own kitchen. but like, of course not with the company's own beef and chicken stocks and garnishings from the actual restaurant, lol - just how you'd duplicate that in another fashion

...but with games and code.

Instead of code snippets, how about something along the side of submitted programming (and spriting) articles? I'm sure people would be a lot more inclined to make and share articles on programming concepts than giving out their own code. Actually, giving out snippets of code doesn't even sound that great, atleast not given the example you mention Kosheh. The theory, system, structure, conveyed by an article is more like the cookbook, creating the code is like using your own ingredients.

Gamedev.net does this and I think it's great.