The VG Resource

(06-25-2015, 11:10 AM)recme Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-25-2015, 09:40 AM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you all assuming that items are all-or-nothing when I specifically said that some items are totally usable and fair? Obviously things like the Gust Bellows and the Drill aren't, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Star Rod or the Fire Flower.

see, the thing is, smash 4 and brawl are already defensive-based games in the competitive community. why should the "fair" items be added if it makes a defensive game more defensive? it just makes the game boring to watch and boring to play if players are just waiting for each other to make a wrong move so that an item can be used/thrown.

Except nobody is asking No-Item Players to use Items or to replace No-Item Tournaments with Item Tournaments. No-Item Play can still very much exist.

Just asking for multiple... Leagues, I guess.

There's more than two ways to play is what this whole discussion really boils down to. I'd like to see all the different ways to play be represented in the community. It's tiresome to hear how casual somebody is if they play with items, because "casual" really is thrown around the Smash community like a slur. It also creates these groups that aren't even accurate. You can't really compare "No Explosive Containers" players to "Everything Goes" players.

Heck, where do Coin Matches fit into all this? I want to see some Coin Tournament Leagues.

We have a really versatile game here, you guys. Why are we restricting it to just two stigmatized groups of gamers?

Also, defensive is not a negative thing. It seems like it is to you and a few other people, and probably to the current Smash Competitive Community, but that doesn't mean there isn't an audience for defensive play. Making a defensive game more defensive just doesn't sound like an argument to me.

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I want opinions from you guys on what you think Sakurai means by "Several Characters" and "From Here on It's All Fanservice".

Article commenters are going crazy thinking "Several" means "Twenty". I'm hoping ya'll will have some more measured responses x.x;

Well I'll just say 2 things...

1.) Smash 4's community is having enough trouble as is agreeing on rulesets at the moment as it's a fresh game with a lot of controversy over things like allowing customs (no equipment), deciding whether to use 2 or 3 stocks, how long the timer should be, and even a new "mode" where only Smooth Lander equipment and Special Smash's Heavy Gravity mode are allowed (SLHG). This only adds yet another layer of disagreement and separation that no one wants.

2.) Speaking of what no one wants...! That's why you don't see item based tournaments! No one wants it!

Quote:Also, defensive is not a negative thing. It seems like it is to you and a few other people, and probably to the current Smash Competitive Community, but that doesn't mean there isn't an audience for defensive play.

It's definitely less exciting, but this is basically what the Smash 4/Brawl scene is

Quote:Making a defensive game more defensive just doesn't sound like an argument to me.

I mean whatever makes you happy

(06-25-2015, 12:40 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: [ -> ]2.) Speaking of what no one wants...! That's why you don't see item based tournaments! No one wants it!

This is demonstrably false. If it were true, this kind of discussion would not return again and again.

The competitive people in here can be a bit arrogant about items :L

One thing I'd like to say really quick: I only turn off items 1% of the time when I play Smash. I'm a scrub who plays for laughs only and I have no interest in playing tournaments.

However, as a person who can understand the difficulty of considering so many random variables, I can say that keeping items off for tournament play is the ONLY way to play when money is involved.

Before an item can be considered legal or illegal for a tournamet, it would have to be extensively tested. That's each item, with each COMBINATION of characters on each stage. The task is far too daunting for me to even fathom. The next Smash would be out before this could even be agreed upon.


In your own home, play by your own rules. When you go somewhere else to play, be ready for a small culture shock when you are asked to play another way. That's not just in Smash, that's life.

(06-25-2015, 02:06 PM)Gwen Wrote: [ -> ]The competitive people in here can be a bit arrogant about items :L

It's more so a knowledge of how random items can negatively affect a match by having so much luck involved. Competitive smash shouldn't be based around how well you use what you happen to get by chance. Nothing competitive should be like that.

Except uh...

Most card games

It could be that competitive players know what they're talking about, and to be honest... you might not. The argument returns and returns every now and then, suggested by people who don't even play the game competitively in the first place. For shits and giggles they just decide to bring it up like it hasn't been tried before and failed, which I've brought up examples of.

Quote:This is demonstrably false. If it were true, this kind of discussion would not return again and again.

The fact remains is that 1% of tourneys have items, so the majority of people playing for prize money do not like items. It's not that hard to grasp

It couldn't possibly be that the current competitors running rough-shod over the scene have turned people off of creating their own tournaments?

Honestly, the way you're characterizing the people you're talking to (because obviously we're just bringing this up for shits and giggles, right? It couldn't possibly be that we want to play in a recognized itemized league, nope. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with wanting more styles of play to be recognized, nope. It's because we like to piss all over you competitive cretins every few months. THAT'S our motivation here.) is pretty way the fuck off base and uncalled for.

Quote:It could be that competitive players know what they're talking about, and to be honest... you might not.

This is an incredibly dickish thing to say in a discussion of opinion. There really aren't any facts here. Well, maybe there's two:

1) The current league of Smash Jock For-Money Players don't like items.
2) Gust Bellows suck for anything but For Fun.

Everything else has been "Oh, random item placement isn't fair!"

Which is opinion.

I honestly don't get why you're so opposed to the idea of the formation of a league of item-players that doesn't threaten your non-item league. Which is what this is about for me. Why are you so opposed to other people doing this thing that doesn't affect you if you don't want it to?

(06-25-2015, 05:23 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: [ -> ]It could be that competitive players know what they're talking about, and to be honest... you might not. The argument returns and returns every now and then, suggested by people who don't even play the game competitively in the first place. For shits and giggles they just decide to bring it up like it hasn't been tried before and failed, which I've brought up examples of.

Quote:This is demonstrably false. If it were true, this kind of discussion would not return again and again.

The fact remains is that 1% of tourneys have items, so the majority of people playing for prize money do not like items. It's not that hard to grasp

I can't even talk about this with you because you have such an arrogant fucking know it all attitude about this. Yes items can cause tricky situations but if you're not a literal idiot, items are pretty easy to react to/dodge for the most part and even if not, lots of people find items fun and would love for the opportunity to play seriously, in tournaments etc, but with items , because believe it or not items can be for more than just fun.

And I guess I'll just post this thing again: http://smashboards.com/threads/item-stan...et.379640/

If you want items to start up, you have to get involved. Have tournaments, what have you. I hated the lack of 64 play, so I've started a small 64 league that hosts a monthly tournament in Jonesboro.

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]It couldn't possibly be that the current competitors running rough-shod over the scene have turned people off of creating their own tournaments?

Why should this affect you? If big names turning people away with their standards were the case, which isn't impossible mind you, Smash 64's scene wouldn't exist. They're a good example of people really pushing for what they want regardless of numbers. If you want items in a competitive sense... play with items and host a tournement!

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, the way you're characterizing the people you're talking to

(06-25-2015, 02:06 PM)Gwen Wrote: [ -> ]The competitive people in here can be a bit arrogant about items :L

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ](because obviously we're just bringing this up for shits and giggles, right? It couldn't possibly be that we want to play in a recognized itemized league, nope. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with wanting more styles of play to be recognized, nope.

Oh- oh you're actually serious about the whole competitive items league thing. Well in that case head on over to Smashboards and discuss it. A single general Smash Bros thread on a forum way off somewhere else in the internet that pretty much no Tournament Organizer would find is a really weird place to ask for these things, don't you think?

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]It's because we like to piss all over you competitive cretins every few months.

Chill out

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]This is an incredibly dickish thing to say in a discussion of opinion.

It... I'm sorry, it just doesn't make it any less true though.

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]1) The current league of Smash Jock For-Money Players don't like items.

Ignoring the... peculiar name you've given the majority of people playing Smash in tourneys, I hope that "current" implies that you know Smashers have been playing like this for... I THINK 12 years? I'm probably not right on the dot, but that seems close.

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]Everything else has been "Oh, random item placement isn't fair!"
Which is opinion.

It's not.

(06-25-2015, 05:46 PM)Kriven Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly don't get why you're so opposed to the idea of the formation of a league of item-players that doesn't threaten your non-item league. Which is what this is about for me. Why are you so opposed to other people doing this thing that doesn't affect you if you don't want it to?

I'm not. I'm just kinda jaded about the constant conceptualizations about it, and yet failure for anything good to come out of it, if anything at all. Kind of like how after this discussion you'll probably never pursue it further anyways.

(06-25-2015, 05:56 PM)Gwen Wrote: [ -> ]If you're not a literal idiot, items are pretty easy to react to/dodge for the most part

This immediately makes no sense when you realize this would be a high level setting in which people actually know what they're doing with them.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/commen...arch_posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/commen...arch_posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/commen...arch_posts



Ooooooh, look at that poooositive reception that managed to kill Brawl's competitive scene right in 2008.

Honestly, I enjoy items a ton, and as much as I speak about competitive jargon blah blah blah, I think a little less than half of all my experience playing these games is just chilling around with a lot of friends in 4 player free for alls with them turned on medium or something. I find them to be a ton of fun, no matter which game (some titles' items may be more intrusive than others) and will probably never play without them unless it's a strict 1v1 where someone asks me to try. In the end though, even I can admit that items pretty much have no place on the big-stage, which is my point. No one serious would want to leave it up to RNG, which makes a lot more impact than you guys give it credit for.

Iiiiiif you'd like proof that I'm not some Melee hardass, here's horribly captured nearly unidentifiable proof of me playing with an item ruleset in actual motion caught by someone I know!




Anyways, given all my reasons over the course of several pages. This is a loophole I tell ya, won't go any further as it delves into pure bashing and throwing around of the "opinion" word which is sort of pointless. Sorry if I seemed arrogant or hurt anyone's feelings. You're all free to play however you like, I'm just some other guy on the internet!










GEE THIS TOPIC SURE IS A WHOLE LOTTA TENSE BACK AND FORTH GOING NOWHERE EVERY 8 PAGES HOW'S ABOUT I CHANGE IT UP A LIL' BIT

All are good games.... Though IMO tier lists ((Especially people knowing they can get away using someone OP or flat out broken and able to exploit glitches)) tend to ruin things alot... *coughmeleecough*

Yeah man I hate those people with their wavecheating and funcancelling too, protip: counterpick to Pokefloats and Kirbycide them off the side of the stage! lmaolmao

L E G A L I Z E P O K E F L O A T S

On a serious note, I finally made some rage quit in real life. I was screwing around with some of my cousin's roommate in Smash, and I wound up swallowing a dude playing Ryu offstage and he broke out. Cue footstool and he just got incredibly salty. All of a sudden he busts out a main ZSS and it's apparently "serious mode" because a couple people have some "oh shits." Five minutes later I've Kirbycided him twice and he turns off the wii u and chucks the controller

What was his john? Was the TV in his eyes?