The VG Resource

someone who missed a Phantom K i think

if "being naive who apparently love being abused by the same people over and over again" is such a problem then a lot of people here should've been banned since ages ago tbqh

^That's my point?

How many times are you people going to say "no no, they mean well this time, I'm sure of it..."

Have a spine for god's sake, stop unbanning people who just want to show off their Kewl Internet Personas. It's not like they don't have other things to do. You don't have to feel guilty for saying no to a fifteenth chance.

Maybe if you were actually decisive about banning people when they cause trouble again it would be fine, but I'm sure if (when) they do something, you're going to have to go through the same song and dance of "but, but what they're doing isn't technically bannable" for weeks straight before they finally cross the line and you can pull the trigger. Dunno why you want to do that to yourselves. How many times can you make the same bad call and not realize you have poor judgment?

Like, someone specifically states they have to intentionally hold back on their "posting style" to stay out of trouble, which is totally (not) a sustainable way to interact with others, and makes a ton of alts to harrass you until you let them back in

Definitely worth unbanning, yeah

considering your first posts since january have been to protest my unban it seems less like a defense of the community and more or a personal matter

if you want we can talk over PMs or FB Messenger, somewhere more suited for a personal argument/debate/conversation

It's also rather weird that you haven't posted since january only to return and post this. I thought the community already didn't mean anything to you at this point, right? why do you care?

I for one cant deny that im upset by things that have been happening on this community lately but claire is certainly not a problem to me at all. We talked to each other all this time, we're great friends etc. Secondly, I always mean well to everyone and i want to get things going on this community and give it some activity rather than let it stagnate even further.

Finally, I second claire and if you want to further talk about it, let's do it via pm.

I don't care about you and I have nothing to say to you, it's the same thing every time and my motivations don't even change my point.

The mods made a stupid decision yet again and it's probably about time they gained some perspective on their actions, because seriously are they not tired of wasting their time and energy pandering to people who insist on abusing the system?

Like, -probation-? You have to be a masochist to want to draw out enforced good behavior for that long. That isn't even a solution, it's just a prolonged delay in your attempt to find out whether or not she's going to keep good behavior. OF COURSE she's going to be on good behavior during probation. Whether or not she'll cause trouble can't even come to light until afterwards. What a waste of time.

I can't believe this cycle has been going on for years and they still can't figure out how it works.

Idk why you guys insist on making this about me, because my activity isn't relevant to what I'm saying.

My point is that I am calling out this ridiculous and consistent lack of good judgment, and unless you can give arguments as to why it's not bad judgment then you should probably just shut up and stop derailing.

nice pm

Look i'm not trying to cause a stir here, i know that you don't agree with the action, but literally claire has been given like two genuine chances. The other bans and subsequent bandodges were done without any kinda talk, I for one dont think thats fair.

Also good that you dont care about me after all we talked together and stuff, maybe I indeed need to gain some perspective on others actions

^I don't care about sengir, not you, gorsal ...

oh ok

I'm sorry for reading it wrongly, if i hurt you or something i'm very sorry

i'll just leave this thread, i need to take some air

Okay so lemme just say that I have 0 problems with you StarSock, you're a coolio person, and I honestly don't agree with the decision either (sorry Sengir ol pal) but the scolding tone of your posts is just... unneeded. Your activity in this community matters in the sense that you are currently here telling those charged with running it how stupid they are when you clearly aren't present enough or in the positions necessary to understand what all goes into these kinds of decisions, and why things are happening the way they are.

StarSock, I had intended to address this privately with you before your most recent post here but that's no longer possible. I'm going to be very blunt up front because this first point is the most important. You don't know nearly as much as you think you do and can't possibly make the kinds of judgement calls you're making without the full story. Nothing about this has been easy or misguided or a show of weakness or pandering but you couldn't possibly know that because you weren't present for any of the discussion involved. So, let's get this part straight now. This was my decision and it was made over the course of hours. I consulted nobody else in making it as I wanted to try to address a recurring problem in a new way. You call it naive but I'd argue that it would be more so to assume the same course of action that has failed time and time again would be the right path here.

So, here's what actually happened. When the latest alt was discovered, instead of immediately banning it like we've been doing for years, I PMed her. I asked what the point of the constant back and forth was and why she insisted on continuing to return when every time she leaves, it's with vitriol for the community. We went back and forth a few times and the gist of the conversation was that she hasn't really had a fair shot to return in a long time given that all of her returns were ill-advised alts and shit-posting when she didn't get her way. We've recently unbanned another long-time trouble maker as they had been banned for years and I'm a firm believer that time can improve people, especially when the trouble started when they were young and immature. With that in mind, Sengir and I had an actual conversation and I decided to try something new.

I merged every alt I could find into her main account, unbanned it, and basically said you're on a one-strike policy. I called it probation for lack of a better word but it's not something that's going to end and it was made clear that exceeding acceptable bounds ever would result in a more permanent ban. To be brutally honest (and Sengir, I'm sorry if this comes off as offensive but it's the truth), I wasn't expecting this to work either. But I figured when it blew up in my face, there would be no more excuses. A legitimate chance would have been given, wasted, and can be referred to in the future. And if that never happened? Awesome, my faith that time can change people would remain unshaken for the time being. And if it did happen, then so be it but at least I tried to deal with it in a different way than all the failures in the past.

So, you call this spineless and a lack of good judgement. I call it the next logical step when every step before it has failed. But that's not even the only issue here. You've spoken out a number of times against staff decisions and while you're fully within your rights to do so (and moreover, feedback really is a welcome thing), you've done so very disrespectfully this time. You're making assumptions based on preconceived notions that simply aren't right. Maybe this was a stupid move and maybe it wasn't but assuming that all permanent bans should be permanent forever is foolish. Nate is a wonderful example of that. He was banned and remained banned for a while but got his act together and I actually reached out to him to lift the ban. If we go on the assumption that bans should never ever be lifted for any reason, that doing so would be a cowardly act taken simply to pander to those who annoy us enough, where would that leave us? Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis and sometimes they're wrong but we're all human and mistakes are going to happen.

So I guess what I'm saying here is basically to drop it. I appreciate that you disagree with this but calling the staff incompetent isn't productive, especially when I was the only one involved in making this happen. If this blows up, it's on me. And if it doesn't, then what's the harm? Is it so difficult to believe that a little understanding and another chance after years of instant bans might be all it takes to put this to rest for good? Because in my eyes, I'd prefer taking that chance than spending the rest of time banning alts and deleting posts.

(10-02-2016, 06:53 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly don't agree with the decision either (sorry Sengir ol pal)

i dont blame u, u took the brunt of the dick pics there and i dont think a single "im sorry" is gonna bleach ur eyes

also i didnt realize u were a site admin so congrats on that (its bc all the names are yellow-orange atm)

but i did promise gors and petie that i'm not here to cause trouble

Shade that's nice and all, but you don't know anything about me or what I know, and this has been so comedically out-of-hand for YEARS that I think my tone is pretty justified

I think the tl;dr version is that someone disrespecting your rules/decision enough to post on alts like it's no big deal is enough reason to believe they haven't changed and they don't deserve another chance for the foreseeable future

Like, that should just be obvious. Why would you let someone break the rules and then willingly tell them it's okay to walk all over you? These situations are handled so childishly

---

You know, I was actually part of the chat that led to these huge changes in sengir's life and behavior, and I probably know more about her personally than any of you so idk why you're acting like there's some great mystery that I'm not in the know about. I could pull that card too, if I wanted.

The harm is that none of you have the judgment to ban her when she skirts the line of what's acceptable behavior and you've all proven that again and again.

Quote:Shade that's nice and all, but you don't know anything about me or what I know, and this has been so comedically out-of-hand for YEARS that I think my tone is pretty justified

Well.
Sorry if this is something to the effect of "out of my know and jurisdiction" to talk about, but at this time I don't think it's a time to even lay judgement on if Sengir is a threat to the well being or not.
I'm not trying to act like I know what I'm talking about, because ultimately I don't. But It's like Pete said, sometimes it's just a matter of time before it comes evident that Sengir is a "bad" or "good" member.
So I don't judge. If he turns out to be a "bad" member (not meant as present-tense, but just for the point I'm making), or a "good member", either way the mods can and will take care of it.

Like I said, there's probably years worth of context I wasn't around for so ultimately I'm a simple passerby offering his piece, but hopefully the point I'm making sticks.

(10-02-2016, 06:59 PM)StarSock64 Wrote: [ -> ]Shade that's nice and all, but you don't know anything about me or what I know, and this has been so comedically out-of-hand for YEARS that I think my tone is pretty justified

I know that you have no logical reason to give a crap about what happens around here when you evidently don't care enough to ever participate in any way. I at least know that much about you, and I feel that's enough in this case to base my judgement around.

As I said previously, I don't disagree with you, but this holier-than-thou shtick you have going on is completely unnecessary, and hardly justified.