07-28-2008, 04:14 AM
I find it funny how people are worried about the werewolf areas, when every thing that was wrong about previous 3D sonic was the complete ASS running segments.
07-28-2008, 04:14 AM
07-28-2008, 10:37 AM
Sonic should stay 2D (and Metroid should have as well). Easily his better games and most are free from stupid ass glitches.
Sonic on the MegaDrive was actually slower than Mario in SMB3, do we need him to be this fast?
Sonic on the MegaDrive was actually slower than Mario in SMB3, do we need him to be this fast?
07-28-2008, 10:57 AM
while we're at it, mario, f-zero, zelda and star fox should stay 2D as well
07-28-2008, 11:22 AM
In general, games started sucking once we learned how to create another dimention. You can't deny that you enjoy the older 2D games more than the 3D sequels.
Mario, Zelda, Suikoden, Chrono Trigger, Sonic, FZero, TMNT, Castlevania, Metal Slug (yes there is 3D game and it sucks balls) and Micro Machines are all good examples.
Sure, I'm not saying they had bad sequels, but they weren't as good.
As for this, I can see it trying to go back in time to make a 2D style movement on a 3D graphical interface - When I see it though, I think about how they are still using the 3D aspect of it. Sonic NEVER went fast - in the original games, he was slow. You couldn't move fast or you'd die but running into spikes, falling into a hole or being hit by an enemy.
You've pretty much just all deluded yourselves into the old games being really fast, when they weren't, quite obviously because you couldn't see where the shit you were going.
This will be bad because it's changing the platform of how Sonic games worked - You run, you jump, you hit, you win. You don't stop and punch something - Sonic doesn't punch shit, he has quills of fucking razorblades so he doesn't have to.
Mario, Zelda, Suikoden, Chrono Trigger, Sonic, FZero, TMNT, Castlevania, Metal Slug (yes there is 3D game and it sucks balls) and Micro Machines are all good examples.
Sure, I'm not saying they had bad sequels, but they weren't as good.
As for this, I can see it trying to go back in time to make a 2D style movement on a 3D graphical interface - When I see it though, I think about how they are still using the 3D aspect of it. Sonic NEVER went fast - in the original games, he was slow. You couldn't move fast or you'd die but running into spikes, falling into a hole or being hit by an enemy.
You've pretty much just all deluded yourselves into the old games being really fast, when they weren't, quite obviously because you couldn't see where the shit you were going.
This will be bad because it's changing the platform of how Sonic games worked - You run, you jump, you hit, you win. You don't stop and punch something - Sonic doesn't punch shit, he has quills of fucking razorblades so he doesn't have to.
07-28-2008, 11:31 AM
Now, I gotta disagree, Mario's 2D counterparts I have a lot less fun with. Same with Zelda. Apart from Link's Awakening, what was kickass.
07-28-2008, 12:01 PM
So, it's just personal preference about what YOU as the individual gamer want.
And no Dazz we can't go back, we can never go back. Do you know how easy it is to make a 3D _______ than it was to make it's 2D counter parts? Well I don't but most people I talk to who have taken up the noble art of 'game design' in college have told me polygons are easier, which I can't actually say for sure. Cause A. I'm a terrible spriter, and B. I don't like working in 3D vector model programs.
As far as I know though, gamers prefer 3D making because it speeds up production time, and allows larger levels of interaction, with games.
And no Dazz we can't go back, we can never go back. Do you know how easy it is to make a 3D _______ than it was to make it's 2D counter parts? Well I don't but most people I talk to who have taken up the noble art of 'game design' in college have told me polygons are easier, which I can't actually say for sure. Cause A. I'm a terrible spriter, and B. I don't like working in 3D vector model programs.
As far as I know though, gamers prefer 3D making because it speeds up production time, and allows larger levels of interaction, with games.
07-28-2008, 12:05 PM
polygons are easier because once you construct the model you're basically done. you don't have to re-draw everything because you can just alter the model.
07-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Um, F-Zero was never really 2D. Mode7 represented a 3D environment. And the F-Zero games that used polygons were better anyway.
07-28-2008, 02:14 PM
Yeah, 3D or not, I think F-Zero X and F-Zero GX top the original F-Zero (and probably the GBA titles).
07-28-2008, 06:07 PM
As for his stretchy arms, I think that Sega is trying to not be too serious with this plot. The elastic arms support this theory.
Correct, most 2d games, whether or not the nostalgia factor is included, are more fun than their later 3d counterparts.
Yeah, sprites can be considered harder, but vector graphics brings 2d games to the level of ease 3d games have.
Correct, most 2d games, whether or not the nostalgia factor is included, are more fun than their later 3d counterparts.
Yeah, sprites can be considered harder, but vector graphics brings 2d games to the level of ease 3d games have.
07-28-2008, 07:20 PM
Dazz I love you (you even mentioned Metal Slug, which is awesome) and completely agree.
But Djanjo we CAN go back. Megaman 9, Bionic Commando Re-Amred, Metal Slug 7, Megaman Powered Up!, Megeman: Maverick Hunter X, Ultimate Ghost 'n Goblins along with so many more show old classic design and execution in a new age.
And you know what all of these games are good/promising. n fact you may realise that a LOT of companies ARE going back because were now at an age where 3D isn't super cool and 2D unacceptable as it was mid-playstation era.
Look at the new Wario Land and say that doesn't look kick ass. It's the game I've been excited about since Metal Slug Anthology (and MGS4 - on a side note a new 2D Metal Gear game would be awesome) and it's a 2D balls to the wall platformer. 2D will always be better than 3D as it allows better design, tighter controls and flawless execution.
And yes polygons are easier than sprites. But look at a game like Metal Slug with all it's hand-done sprites and backgrounds and say your not impressed. Because I still thank SNK every time I play that game for just how much detail and sheer awesomeness there is on screen.
But Djanjo we CAN go back. Megaman 9, Bionic Commando Re-Amred, Metal Slug 7, Megaman Powered Up!, Megeman: Maverick Hunter X, Ultimate Ghost 'n Goblins along with so many more show old classic design and execution in a new age.
And you know what all of these games are good/promising. n fact you may realise that a LOT of companies ARE going back because were now at an age where 3D isn't super cool and 2D unacceptable as it was mid-playstation era.
Look at the new Wario Land and say that doesn't look kick ass. It's the game I've been excited about since Metal Slug Anthology (and MGS4 - on a side note a new 2D Metal Gear game would be awesome) and it's a 2D balls to the wall platformer. 2D will always be better than 3D as it allows better design, tighter controls and flawless execution.
And yes polygons are easier than sprites. But look at a game like Metal Slug with all it's hand-done sprites and backgrounds and say your not impressed. Because I still thank SNK every time I play that game for just how much detail and sheer awesomeness there is on screen.
07-28-2008, 09:32 PM
Goemar, I'm one of the LAST people on Earth, that prefers 3D to 2D Minus series such as 'Tales of' which either or are sweet in terms seriously that series nails it on the head of fun and epic every single time.
I'd like to say "Yo, Goemar check it! Sonic the Hedgehog full remake!" But it's not my fault I can't because, they know it's easy, they know regardless they're going to make sales. This conversation is just the E3 Nintendo conference in micro.
They don't HAVE to sell to the kids who grew up on Sonic. They just sell Sonic now. It's easy to them. You think I don't know the Metal Slug games are rediculous in terms of style? I have a very serious appreciation when it comes to games and sprites, my rule is a video game should look like a video game. A fairytale storybook, or cartoon that I can interact with.
HOWEVER I won't let the fact that I'd rather see a 2D Sonic or remake of the originals stop me from continuing to enjoy the Blue Blur. Maybe instead of bashing the new, we ought to consider ourselves grateful that we were born in the age of sprites where it could be appreciated? Kids today, will never know what it was like during those days. No matter how well we try to replicate it for them.
See there's another games like Kingdomhearts, and Brave Fencer Musashi are games that started in 3D, but could you honestly imagine doing those games in high-res sprites? Yes, but it'd probably never be to the caliber of what was done in 3D, the same is true except in reverse, they can never make you happy. Even if they did everything exactly as you told them from your own mouth.
I'd like to say "Yo, Goemar check it! Sonic the Hedgehog full remake!" But it's not my fault I can't because, they know it's easy, they know regardless they're going to make sales. This conversation is just the E3 Nintendo conference in micro.
They don't HAVE to sell to the kids who grew up on Sonic. They just sell Sonic now. It's easy to them. You think I don't know the Metal Slug games are rediculous in terms of style? I have a very serious appreciation when it comes to games and sprites, my rule is a video game should look like a video game. A fairytale storybook, or cartoon that I can interact with.
HOWEVER I won't let the fact that I'd rather see a 2D Sonic or remake of the originals stop me from continuing to enjoy the Blue Blur. Maybe instead of bashing the new, we ought to consider ourselves grateful that we were born in the age of sprites where it could be appreciated? Kids today, will never know what it was like during those days. No matter how well we try to replicate it for them.
See there's another games like Kingdomhearts, and Brave Fencer Musashi are games that started in 3D, but could you honestly imagine doing those games in high-res sprites? Yes, but it'd probably never be to the caliber of what was done in 3D, the same is true except in reverse, they can never make you happy. Even if they did everything exactly as you told them from your own mouth.
07-28-2008, 09:46 PM
The thing that stopped me from enjoying Sonic was when his games became bad. Not that fact that I'm looking for the Sonic of the past. Yes that would be awesome but I still know a good game when I see one.
God of War, Halo, and even Ninja Gaiden (a series whom 2D games I loved) are all great 3D games and I doubt making them 2D or with sprites would make them better or worse as the gameplay was brilliant.
However the new Sonic games do not have brilliant gameplay. Even the new 2D Sonic games aren't great. Sonic is simply not a great franchise anymore and that's my problem with it.
For the record my first console was the N64. Sure I played as Tails on Sonic on the MegaDrive when I was 6 but that doesn't really count. The first time I played a game as a gamer was with the N64. I went BACK to the old games, I didn't start with them.
God of War, Halo, and even Ninja Gaiden (a series whom 2D games I loved) are all great 3D games and I doubt making them 2D or with sprites would make them better or worse as the gameplay was brilliant.
However the new Sonic games do not have brilliant gameplay. Even the new 2D Sonic games aren't great. Sonic is simply not a great franchise anymore and that's my problem with it.
For the record my first console was the N64. Sure I played as Tails on Sonic on the MegaDrive when I was 6 but that doesn't really count. The first time I played a game as a gamer was with the N64. I went BACK to the old games, I didn't start with them.