The VG Resource

All I can say is that Gameplay is the main thing that decides if a game is shitty or not.

As for Metroid: Other M, there is some new info about it on GoNintendo. Check it out if you want. Its not really much.

Quote:Shush! You are now under the command of the Great Pixel. You will do and think as his bidding.

ALL BOW TO THE GREAT PIXEL.

Quote:People just confuse factual shit with shit in your opinion.

my "opinions" are logical extensions of facts
everything i have spoken of is fact here, sorry!! a boss did in fact fall off into space and explode - that is, in fact, "stupid" for many reasons; the opening of MP3 is in fact a mess, other M does in fact show samus german supplexing enemies and then shooting them in the face at point blank - which is not something that she would have done in any of the past games as she has always been presented as an acrobat, a "graceful" warrior

there is, in fact, a noticable change in direction following metroid prime 2 (and to a lesser extent, fusion, but that was inevitable given the time lapse and yokoi) and from an objective standpoint it isn't really "as good" as what came before - one might ENJOY or LIKE it more, but ultimately that doesn't really mean much

etc. etc. etc.

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Quote:All I can say is that Gameplay is the main thing that decides if a game is shitty or not.

and what is "gameplay", then?
"gameplay" is not defined as the controls, or how "fun" a game is;
"gameplay" is the interaction between the player character and its environment and the scenarios that come up between there (if not for environments or scenarios, there would be nothing for the character to do - "control" would be meaningless) and as an extension of this the immersion and emotional reaction that arises from these objective things

hence, if those scenarios are "stupid" or badly done (like the opening for mp3 and the horrible dark aether or w/e parts of mp2) then that would imply that in at least one regard the gameplay is actually lackluster, wouldn't it?

Quote:As for Metroid: Other M, there is some new info about it on GoNintendo. Check it out if you want. Its not really much.

Quote:"However, different from the rest of the series, this time we're strongly depicting the human side of Samus through such things as movies. She's a strong woman, but she also has a fragile side. We want to make a game whose charms can be felt from the story areas and these human touches as well. It's an action game, but it's capable of having a clear emotional side."

looks like I was right on that~

Tsundere no Samus?

mean, we have this aspergers, orphan -raised by aliens-, fragile yet beatiful woman in this extremely tight swimsuit lying inside the most cosmic overloaded and deadly armor running around wreaking havoc saving the universe for a living, and we expect her not being, well, a tomboy?

i dont think it takes twenty years of fan speculation to asume that. if i read that quote from gonintendo right, things in OtherM would be focused on what happens inside the armor, instead of outside(wich is what has been happening since the first game).

feels like a natural move, to be honest. as long as it doesnt fuck up gameplay, not a problem for me.

PS: gameplay is how smooth your experience is dealing with the game. it doesnt even relate to how accurate controls/load times are/fun/etc(only), but instead how does you experience the flow of the game is.

(02-03-2010, 03:35 PM)Gizmonicgamer Wrote: [ -> ]"gameplay" is the interaction between the player character and its environment and the scenarios that come up between there (if not for environments or scenarios, there would be nothing for the character to do - "control" would be meaningless) and as an extension of this the immersion and emotional reaction that arises from these objective things

that's not gameplay

that's not gameplay at all

that's one of the words you used in your description for gameplay; "immersion." it's character interaction.

gameplay is, indeed, the controls, how fun a game is, and how a game plays. hence, "gameplay"


might i add that i am completely neutral to this whole "metroid is going retarded" argument because i never played many metroid games

Quote:gameplay is, indeed, the controls, how fun a game is, and how a game plays. hence, "gameplay"

And with no environment there is no control, there is nothing. It is the interactions with the environment that allow there to be control, that allow for you to control your character and have "fun".

Game play - "how a game plays" is contingent upopn both of these factors, it is the interactions between a character and it's environment. It cannot exist with just one, it must have both. It comprises the entirety of the game on a subjective level, what the player experiences while playing a game.
(of course, however, all subjective reactions inherently have objective causes thus what the player experiences is a result of what is in the game itself).

(02-03-2010, 07:27 PM)Gizmonicgamer Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:gameplay is, indeed, the controls, how fun a game is, and how a game plays. hence, "gameplay"

And with no environment there is no control, there is nothing. It is the interactions with the environment that allow there to be control, that allow for a game to have gameplay.

But without controls and fun factor, it's not a game. It's a movie, a cutscene, something you don't interact with. You can't completely rule out control as a crucial gameplay element.
If there's no game to play, there's nothing to do but watch. You can't rule out one or the other. Character interaction by itself is character interaction. Character interaction with controls is gameplay.

i actually edited my post and fixed it up and added more and made it a little clearer just before you posted

we just totally fucked up the whole topic.

But if I recall, arguement with Prime 3 was the "boom" which was something you watched not played, therefor the "boom" has nothing to do with the gameplay.
You watched that pirate fall off, you didn't play it. That's not gameplay.

because that was clearly his only problem with the game

Clearly. Because if you look at his original post, it has to do with his anger towards the things that didn't make sense in the very beginning of the game.

I didn't hear him complain about anything that had to do with gameplay. Just doors, gravity, and soldiers.

somebody needs to pay attention in class more often mr.koopaul, if you keep this up you're going to get an F...

every single complaint about the opening of MP3 was a complaint about gameplay and how it was handled. everything I discussed was a reaction to your action, and it was handled horrendously. when you shot the guards, they twitched. that's it. the doors had to opened by your gun - that is illogical, being on a "friendly" base. the engineers did nothing when you shot them, but inexplicably turrets would come out and try and kill you - and yet, they would not react any differently. they still behaved the same, continuously uttering the "samus! what an honor to meet you" praise.

while being shot at, by turrets, because you shot an invincible engineer inside of a friendly base that let you keep your gun because "you needed it to open doors". the doors of which, are discovered by scanning, are opened because shooting them with weapons fire disrupts the energy field.

why would a door have an energy field, and why would they specifically design it to be opened with weapon fire - wouldn't that just make it more accessible to enemy soldiers and put everyone at risk?


every single one of these things are experienced directly - as I stated before, gameplay is more than just "things you do", they are the things that you do in relation to the world that you exist within - and simultaneously, how that world reacts. "gameplay" is the subjective experience of playing a game. it is a scale consistently balancing itself between two weights, a perpetual chain of action and reaction.

furthermore, "stupidity" - that is, stupid choices, stupid design, or stupid events/scenarios, will inherently inhibit ones ability to be immersed in the game and as such will have an effect on the subjective experience of playing the game - gameplay

EDIT: Screw this. I had a counter argument but what for? You'll just counter it and then I will and so forth.

Quote:That's just how the game works. Remember Metroid Fusion? Don't you shoot doors open in the Lab? As for shooting your friends, what did you want them to do? Die?

"thats just how the game works?"
thats just an excuse. in super metroid the doors simply opened when you stood in front of them (on the space station), why couldn't that have been replicated?

Anyway, I digress;
Preferably... they would have not let you shoot inside of the station. That would have made a lot more sense; (you shouldn't allow a character to do something that that "character" would never do - like for example, shoot the guards or engineers).

also, in Fusion the lab was already under the control of something else and everything contained within wasn't working properly, if you'll recall correctly.

Quote:So please tell beyond that one point in the game what else did you dislike? Or did you stop playing from that point?

I don't remember too much.

I played a few points later on as well but nothing stuck out to me as being either "good" or "horrendous", it was just a weird stew of mediocrity bordering on ridiculousness. the train. killing space pirates with morph ball. that stupid and illogical cannon thing on the floating station that shot you as a morph ball to the other parts.

etc.

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Quote:EDIT: Screw this. I had a counter argument but what for? You'll just counter it and then I will and so forth.

oh lol ok

(02-03-2010, 11:34 PM)Koopaul Wrote: [ -> ]and then I will

nigga you trollin




backpeddaling and refusing to acknowledge the entirety of your 'opponent's argument != making a counter argument