I could wavedash, and I personally didn't seem all that useful besides for edgehogging and even that was pretty iffy. The better players could use it as a way to open more strategies and better mind games. I'm glad it wasn't in Brawl since it was one less thing for me to worry about and actually have fun with the game.
But anyway, from the test engine, it didn't look like it was using Melee's version of an air dodge.
If it was intended to be in they wouldn't have removed it in Brawl.
It was cheap. It was the signature move of those damn tourney guys, like snaking in Mario Kart DS. If you ever went against those guys you'd know what I'm talking about. They'd suck the fun right out of the game and ruin it for everyone.
There's no disagreement that it wasn't meant to be in the game here, I'm just asking how was it "cheap"?
How is it cheap? The only players who ever said it was cheap sucked at the game.
It only slides you forward a bit. It makes slower characters faster, helps you avoid
attacks and chains combos together if done right.
That's exactly it. It was unfair advantage to those who couldn't, hence why people might call it cheap. And I guess that makes you one of the people who don't "suck at the game." Honestly. I don't find it cheap, but really. Give some thought to people who "suck" and how they feel about it.
And I honestly don't see why we're still arguing about this. Pointless argument is pointless.
Seriously, this sounds like me when I first played the N64 game. I didn't know how to smash attack and thopught those who could were cheap etc etc.
But we have gotten way off topic lets just drop this.
On the topic of Kirby:
-I think that the punishment for stone use is stupid. It's already a bad move, and punishable by grabbing. We don't want to nerf it anymore.
-I say that we de-nerf his Fence of Pain technique into something a little closer to Jigglypuff's Wall of Pain (I don't play Brawl, so anything I mention is referenced to Melee).
-We should make his Down Tilt hit players directly upward, but do less damage. This increases comboing ability.
-Nerf is Forward Tilt's and Fair's
-Decrease >B knockback in air.
And Krampus, if wavedashing is a "move" then the "signature move" would definitely be the L-cancel.
I don't think Stone needs a tweak either. I never had any trouble with it even back in the N64 days. What is the Fence/Wall of pain?
Generally, it's following a character off a stage and hitting them with an aerial move over and over and over every time they try and get back to the stage that can KO someone very easily at a low percentage. That's what I've known it as. Only characters that have multiple jumps and are floaty can do this, maybe Dedede as the exception.
Also, Kirby's air Hammer. Make it one swing and not two, keep the knockback and make it slower, or a speed like the ground hammer. I dunno.
Restore Kirby's spinning air hammer then.
Make Pit's B Side and short ranged boomerang Ring of Light. Instead of Pit infinitely twirling it, he throws it a short distance forward... And it can't reflect objects.
I think it should stay the same but have a time limit.
Yeah but he already has a ton of twirly moves. This would make it more unique. Also I don't think Pit needs two reflector moves.
Also can we make one more of Lucas' Special moves different? Like maybe his B Down could be PK Earth or something.
Pk Earth? I think the word your looking for is PK Ground
Why not give Lucas moves he actually had? Lucas's down B could reduce knock back from certain attacks for X amount of time or have a greater damage output for a certain amount of time, or some other utility move. Or we could give him an extra item to use idk. It just seems better to add a Mother character in the game who actually used offensive psi rather than give the characters moves they never used before
EDIT: Why not give him refresh to rid himself of item's secondary effects (or reverse them). Ie instead of the flower giving you damage, the damage it gives you is actually subtracted from the damage you have now. It would be an original way of health recovery to use.