(02-05-2010, 03:42 PM)Vipershark Wrote: actually, that's not true

we wanted:

no friends
side scroller
sprites
basically a genesis game

I will link back to the destructoid article. SO HELP ME. Sonic Games of today have never annoyed me as much as the fans. Whatever the hell a fan can be called anyway. My gripe is that you people no matter what, will complain. Groove is right but he's just saying what I've been saying how's you try not worrying about you'll think is missing or ineffectual and start thanking your ungrateful asses they're even trying a little to cater to you? Why should they even have to at all? You don't make SEGA's money anymore. You little brothers, sisters, nieces, and nephews do, and they're the ones who be buying the game in bulk anyway.

(02-05-2010, 03:41 PM)Goemar Wrote: I don't think I've ever heard Sonic fans complaining about plot, normally they complain that the game is crap.

As for Sega making good games recently, like what? They've published some good games, but not actually made any which come to mind.

That second comment has little to do with what I said, but I'll bite. I completely enjoyed all the Advances, the two Rush games, SA 1 and 2, and Unleashed. Got a decent kick out of Heroes and Secret Rings, but didn't finish them. Not played the others.

They're not bad games by any means, really (I don't speak for the one's I've not played, I know '06 is meant to be bad). There are far worse games out there; I just think people like to complain.

(02-05-2010, 03:02 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote:

(02-05-2010, 01:39 PM)Rökkan Wrote: WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE ROOTS but with modern sonic, homming attack, dashpads, air tricks, and a giant monster at the end of the game!!!!

I'm still struggling to see what's wrong with this. That description sounds like fun. The fuck is wrong with you. =|

>dashpads

>fun



the fuck is wrong with YOU?


Dashpads are only made to give the player speed easily and pull you forward, making you not able of going back, trying another route, or trying to access a secret path or room, and unabling you of control of the character. They were needed in 3D? Maybe, because the Adventures' playability wasn't enough by themselves to grant a solid game. Doing a 3D game with the same playability of the classics is hard, if not impossible. That's why they came up with Homming Attack and Dashpads. But Dashpads ever since Day 1 were overused to make the player feel speed but not really control it. If you tried to control the character in those sections, you probably fall off a cliff or something.


And I'm pretty sure that this is might be a good game by itself, but they literally said "we're going back to the roots" just to after that say "OH NEVERMIND". It's like doing Megaman 9 but then you find out later that it's Irregular Hunter X. Plus that means that classic Sonic might never come back.

And I'm also pretty sure that level design is going to be like shit since Iizuka is probably involved there. But WHO KNOWS.

What's the difference between using a dash pad and using a horizontal jump pad? Both can also be used as hazards, seeing as they can instead also propel you into certain DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM (echo, high reverb)...

Oh I'm sorry. Because I was under the impression that Sonic was meant to be going fast, and booster pads in conjunction with jumping puzzles was both fun to play and cool to watch. Oh sure I can spent the majority of the level spindashing around instead, but that's not actually fun or anything.

What I don't get is why you can't just let it go and ignore the game like you most likely ignored the 3D games prior to this one, and not get mad over silly unimportant shit. Meanwhile I'll enjoy a 2D Sonic game that keeps in some of the mechanics and stage features I like. Ho hum.

how are you guys forgetting that dash pads were in both sonic 2 and 3

also "going back to the roots" doesn't have to mean "rebooting everything." it means looking back at the original concepts and basing the new idea off them. not making a carbon copy of the original concepts. sort of cutting off the fat.

I can understand the complaint but it's not exactly a completely valid one.

this is the most "classic" Sonic has been in a long time. perhaps we might never get a true classic Sonic back, but this is damn well a good enough try for me to commend their efforts.

(02-05-2010, 06:23 PM)Jovian-12 Wrote: also "going back to the roots" doesn't have to mean "rebooting everything." it means looking back at the original concepts and basing the new idea off them. not making a carbon copy of the original concepts. sort of cutting off the fat.

I can understand the complaint but it's not exactly a completely valid one.

this is the most "classic" Sonic has been in a long time. perhaps we might never get a true classic Sonic back, but this is damn well a good enough try for me to commend their efforts.

This

Is gratitude. Learn it.

i feel grateful for 4 concept arts(half involving plants), a somehow half made background menu music, 3 seconds of video, and a lot of teasing/hyping.

i really am.

(02-05-2010, 04:04 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote:

(02-05-2010, 03:41 PM)Goemar Wrote: I don't think I've ever heard Sonic fans complaining about plot, normally they complain that the game is crap.

As for Sega making good games recently, like what? They've published some good games, but not actually made any which come to mind.

That second comment has little to do with what I said, but I'll bite. I completely enjoyed all the Advances, the two Rush games, SA 1 and 2, and Unleashed. Got a decent kick out of Heroes and Secret Rings, but didn't finish them. Not played the others.

They're not bad games by any means, really (I don't speak for the one's I've not played, I know '06 is meant to be bad). There are far worse games out there; I just think people like to complain.

Recently. I see no recent games there. I also enjoyed the Advance series and both Rush games. Hated Heroes and Unleashed though.

My problem is that Sega keeps saying there going back to there roots, and they're not. This is just another game in the new series. Not in the old one as it so boldly claims .

I wish this was Sonic 4's logo.

BAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW GREEN EYES

i'm with goemar and rokkan on this one. not only does sega do this literally every time they release a sonic game, but also, if you're going to reboot a franchise, reboot that fucker. you don't have to take baby steps to please the people who like the new games. most people who aren't "sonic fans" like the old design better. most people who aren't "sonic fans" like the old gameplay better. most people who aren't "sonic fans" like the old level design better etc... i'm not even saying they should stop trying to innovate and add to it but if you want to reboot the franchise go back to square one, then innovate with the sequels.

edit: i mean its not that people despise the new design that much. it just represents that they really still aren't gonna go the extra mile in making this fun for people who liked the old games.

the winners of the concept art contest are a joke. might as well make a badnik with poo and call it original.

(02-05-2010, 05:33 PM)Vipershark Wrote: how are you guys forgetting that dash pads were in both sonic 2 and 3

Sonic 2 only had a booster thing in Chemical Plant and that's it. It had also a plate thing that brought you forward in Wing Fortress, but it does not work anything like a dashpad.

Sonic 3 had also something in Hydrocity, but it didn't work like a dashpad, since you had to stop and let it spin you to finally boost you forward. Flying Battery and Death Egg had the same thing in Wing Fortress that's not a dashpad.

And for the note, Sonic CD had something that boosted you forward in Stardust Speedway, but only worked if you were running at a certain speed.

Quote:Oh I'm sorry. Because I was under the impression that Sonic was meant to be going fast, and booster pads in conjunction with jumping puzzles was both fun to play and cool to watch. Oh sure I can spent the majority of the level spindashing around instead, but that's not actually fun or anything.

What I don't get is why you can't just let it go and ignore the game like you most likely ignored the 3D games prior to this one, and not get mad over silly unimportant shit. Meanwhile I'll enjoy a 2D Sonic game that keeps in some of the mechanics and stage features I like. Ho hum.

That's the problem with Iizuka's level design.

Sonic is to be played, not to watch.

I don't want to watch Sonic run from a killer whale, I want to PLAY as Sonic running from a killer whale. I want to be able to go back and forth as I damn well please, and not have a fuckton of dashpads keeping me from going back, and when I finally get to backtrack, I die in a pit because that's not what the level designer intended? And thus I end up finding a bug, or die for silly reasons because I was not following what it was EXACTLY supposed to be followed by the level designer? Iizuka's level design is a roller coaster, you have just one track, you cannot backtrack, there are no tracks to switch to, you just have to go forward and watch you go through loops or other "radical" features that you don't have any control on, but just watch.

Classic Sonic didn't have this. You could go back to grab an item you forgot, you could try bumping into walls to find special paths and shortcuts, actually, the level design incentivated that. You could just jump off the looping or of a corkscrew without having to die in a pit or find a bug, because the level designers actually let the player do that.
And also, if you're spindashing a lot, that means you're not a very good player. Once you build up momentum, be it from a spin-dash, or a loop, you have to work your way to keep with that speed during the level, and if you don't, you will have to spin-dash to try gaining it again. Plus, every single level can be beaten without the use of Spin-Dash, (until Sonic 3, but Spin-Dash was only needed for minor things like the "wheel switch" on Marble Garden and the "wheel platform rail" on Lava Reef.) and if you don't have enough speed because you performed a break during a series of loopings or a diagonal fall, or a high-speed section like that, you won't fall into a pit, you won't have to restart the level, or find a glitch. You'll just access another path. It might be a slower path, or a path with more enemies, with less items, or with a tricky platforming section, but it will be an alternative path.

To illustrate better the difference of the level design then and now, I'll use an example my friend used with me: Think of City Escape from SA2. Remember that there are lots of streets that crossed with each other? Now, wouldn't it be interesting if you actually could go to those other streets for alternative paths instead of being unable of exploring those areas because of invisible walls?

And I never ignored a single Sonic game. The only one I did was Sonic Rush because I thought it was just going to be exactly like the Advances and there wasn't going to be anything special or different about it. But then, one year after its launch, I saw a trailer of it and got extremely excited. Bought it and I'm not regretful about it, it's a pretty good game.

I'm really disappointed that it's just about re-using classic gameplay (not even that they're doing it exactly) and not about going classic again, because classic Sonic had an incredible atmosphere and charm, and, even though when I first saw the Adventure's design and artwork I thought that was the coolest and edgiest shit ever, nowadays, modern Sonic is just tiresome and stupid. If I had just one single game with classic Sonic again I'd be very happy, but doing a Sonic the Hedgehog 4, with more elements from modern Sonic than classic Sonic? This is a powerful kick in the nuts. Still, if they can pull off the same level design and game concept of the classics, I'll probably buy this and like it. But so far, this game is not something that I'm optimistic about.