(03-02-2010, 10:14 PM)Pokemon Training Apparatus Wrote: Everything about the new Legendaries has more meaning and much more to make them stand out than the originals did. What do we have in generation one? An Ice/Fire/Thunder bird. Woo hoo. Whats so special? What gives them meaning? They have no backstory other than being three birds you find in the game that represent a little element. Whoop-dee-doo. We also have Mewtwo and Mew, which were the only two legendaries who actually had some sort of value and meaning to them in the game.

What do we have in the fourth gen? We have the Legendary for nightmares. Holy shit what a wonderful idea, its a wonderful idea. We also have its counterpart, again, a wonderful, lovely idea. And interest continues because Darkria and Cresselia also have opposite typing. They put thought and consideration in actually trying to create a relationship between these two Pokemon that everyone could see. Two legendaries out of nowhere and they already have much more too them than any Legendary in the first two generation bar Mewtwo.

Yeah, the legendaries aren't "God" like, like they were int he first few generations. But we have pokemon like Arcues, Rayquaza etc that are meant to represent god like things, while many other pokemon are simply folklore. They aren't god like, it makes sense for them to seem less legendary than pokemon like Arcues.

I think you completely dodged the ones I was talking about.

Like Manaphy/Phione, Shaymin, etc, tiny little insignificant shit legendaries like that.

Manaphy/Shaymin are the new Mew.

The "cute" legendaries.

Though I have no clue why the hell Heatran was in DPPt

But why are there three of them?

And why is one breedable?

Your totally fucking overreacting... Even though 13 is the most they've ever had, its still not even that much, compared to the 100 some new pokemon adde each game that still leaves you at least 80 fucking new pokemon, not to mention the already mentioned fact you don't even need to use Legendary's or bother about them if it ruins the game for you that much. As for me I love the newer legendaries the most besides lugia. Groundon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giritina, and Darkrai are much better than three fucking birds with no story whatsoever.
EDIT: WELP my bad this was to Tom...guess I was much to late.

It's not even that the old ones were better. That's all a matter of opinion.

It's the fact that there are too many of them in one game. It tripled for almost no reason whatsoever-- a lot of the new legendaries should have been saved for gen 5, or they should have kept all the new legendaries and completely stopped the series at gen 4.

If it keeps up at this rate, generation 6 will be half new pokemon, half new legendaries.

(03-02-2010, 10:46 PM)Alpha Six Wrote: But why are there three of them?

And why is one breedable?

Yeah, they kinda went a little crazy with all that. I always thought they should've kept it with just Manaphy.

its all sinnoh legends and myth, shaymin is a gratitude pokemon that can tramsform with the gracidea flower into a flying form.(they did this so shaymin is more useful in battle instead of having it the same as the other cute legendaries)

manaphy are born in cold seas, but when they have offspring in warm seas(sinnoh) phione are born instead. phione can also breed but only with other phione, they cant breed with manaphy or breed manaphy(even if in cold seas) only manaphy can give birth to phione since its a lesser version of it.

manaphy and phione are the only legendaries breedable(since you can only originally get manaphy as an egg from ranger/whatever), but when phione is only born cuz sinnoh has warm seas. phione is also the weakest legendary since its base stats are lower than all of them, WHY? IDK.

THERE, ARE WE CLEAR?

(03-02-2010, 10:14 PM)Pokemon Training Apparatus Wrote: Everything about the new Legendaries has more meaning and much more to make them stand out than the originals did. What do we have in generation one? An Ice/Fire/Thunder bird. Woo hoo. Whats so special? What gives them meaning? They have no backstory other than being three birds you find in the game that represent a little element. Whoop-dee-doo. We also have Mewtwo and Mew, which were the only two legendaries who actually had some sort of value and meaning to them in the game.

What do we have in the fourth gen? We have the Legendary for nightmares. Holy shit what a wonderful idea, its a wonderful idea. We also have its counterpart, again, a wonderful, lovely idea. And interest continues because Darkria and Cresselia also have opposite typing. They put thought and consideration in actually trying to create a relationship between these two Pokemon that everyone could see. Two legendaries out of nowhere and they already have much more too them than any Legendary in the first two generation bar Mewtwo.

Yeah, the legendaries aren't "God" like, like they were int he first few generations. But we have pokemon like Arcues, Rayquaza etc that are meant to represent god like things, while many other pokemon are simply folklore. They aren't god like, it makes sense for them to seem less legendary than pokemon like Arcues.

darkrai and cresselia are understandable, but what about the other shit legendaries like heatran that have no reason to be there?

Darkrai and Cresselia could've at least been gen5 legends.

The Bird Trio existed as "holy shit rare pokemon collect the whole trio", Mewtwo existed as the postgame boss, and Mew was the secret rare.

Aside from palkia and dialga (and I guess giratina), shaymin and manaphy, and the pixie trio, what's the point of all the other legendaries in gen4?

Like I said, I understand the darkrai/cresselia relationship, but they could've easily held off until gen5 to introduce them.

Honestly it's locations, and movies.

Heatran is a super out of the way kind of Legendary like "Why the hell am I going to the top of this mountain?!" kind of Pokemon. Which only further proves the point that pokemon needs to stop being "gotta catch em all!".

(03-02-2010, 10:46 PM)Ahsoka Tano Wrote: Your totally fucking overreacting... Even though 13 is the most they've ever had, its still not even that much, compared to the 100 some new pokemon adde each game that still leaves you at least 80 fucking new pokemon, not to mention the already mentioned fact you don't even need to use Legendary's or bother about them if it ruins the game for you that much. As for me I love the newer legendaries the most besides lugia. Groundon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giritina, and Darkrai are much better than three fucking birds with no story whatsoever.
EDIT: WELP my bad this was to Tom...guess I was much to late.

I could really care less, because regardless of what anyone thinks, there's a bunch of Japanese people in a room right now doing something that someone is gonna hate and others are gonna love.

However, you've challenged my ranting ability, and I have only one question for you now, my friend, in my best Keith David voice...


ARE YOU REAAAAAAADYYY!?


Let me simplify what I'm about to say: I think that lots of the Gen 4 legendaries are pointless or superfluous.

Now the long version. Allow me to organize all the Gen 4 legendaries and explain why I think they are good, why I think they are bad, and what could have been done to make certain Legendaries less of a grate on my nerves... Also, let me also say that with things how they are, Gen 4 could have been a good ending Generation, mostly because with so many Legendaries, they wanted to push out several other ideas at once, but in reality I doubt that... Anyway, onto the list:

Lake Trio: A necessary staple since Gen 1. Every Generation had a trio, each different from the last. Did all three of these have to be Psychics? No, probably not.

Dialga/Palkia: The staple Yin and Yang, bread and butter Legendaries since Gen 2. Ever since Gen 2, there were competing "poster child" Legendaries, so these guys are pretty much expected.

Giratina: Something that began in Gen 3 (which I never played, I just have knowledge of) was the inclusion of a THIRD Legendary to form a trifecta with the two poster Pokemon legendaries. This, while not AS necessary, isn't SO bad. One odd thing is the inclusion of a second form... Personally, I feel like they just couldn't settle on one design for Giratina, so they gave it two. (That origin form is pretty bitchin' if you ask me).

Darkrai and Cresselia: These two are a bit weird... they are kind of cool, but in reality, they just feel like the Yin and Yang concept with two pokemon who weren't cool enough in design to be poster-children. It's not so bad, they can kind of be paralleled to Deoxys' spot, but they aren't nearly as cool as a genetic alien that has four forms. I guess they kind of replace Lati@s as a secret duo, but one is very accessible while the other is morbidly secret (aka: Event Pokemon).

EVERYTHING BEYOND THIS POINT ARE QUESTIONABLE AND/OR SUPERFLUOUS.

Regigigas: While a fairly cool concept, he seems extra. Why wasn't he in Gen 3, where the Regi's originated? More importantly, why did he need to be in Gen 4 when there were so many Legendaries already? Oh well, I guess it's not THAT bad, Gen 4 is bound to have more Legendaries than 3, right?

Heatran: This is certainly a questionable decision. Why did there need to be a random, relatively ineffective Legendary like this? Why couldn't they just have kept it as some sort of powerful, final evolution of a regular Pokemon and just have a storyline around it because it's a cool guy? Wait, it's not THAT cool... Kinda cool, not very. (Also, I know if it was a regular Pokemon, its stats tweaked to be not as powerful, but honestly I don't even know how powerful it is.)

Phione/Manaphy: THIS is where things get REALLY questionable. Not even because of the breeding, because in all honesty, I thought that was an interesting idea for a Legendary, granted its originality is tapped out after it is introduced, but for a one-time thing, I think it's alright in my book. However, that brings us to two problems: Manaphy competes with Shaymin for the spot of the "obligitory-secret-Mew-like" Pokemon. Not only that, it creates ANOTHER Pokemon of the same manner. Maybe if Manaphy was some sort of event Pokemon or transfer from a spin-off that wasn't really considered a legendary, it wouldn't be that much of a headache. What makes matters worse is their design. Truth be told, before I was versed better in Gen 4, I thought that Manaphy was in the same family as the Lake Trio. Sure, if you put them side by side it's not that confusing, but I never saw them side by side when I had that confusion. Still doesn't change the fact that their design is kind of shitty.

Shaymin: In all honesty, I think this could be the obligitory-Mew-like Pokemon.. however, things get slightly more complicated when they randomly add another form in an attempt to make what was once a rather cute hedgehog-inspired creature into a edgier Sonic-inspired creature who only looks like its previous form because of color similarities. Really, I can deal with Pokemon with multiple forms. But did we need more than one Legendary in one Gen that was like that? It's hardly original or interesting now.

Arceus: In my opinion, a wasted opportunity. They could have held out for one more Gen and then dropped this on us like a freakin' bomb, made it the focus of a whole Generation. Instead, they crowded it into an already packed list of legendaries, so many of them Event Pokemon, and made its very existence bizarre and cryptic to anyone without a Gameshark or devout interest in Pokemon. "Oh! There are these two Pokemon that are like Yin and Yang! Oh wait, there's someone ONE Pokemon that equals the exact Opposite of Yin and Yang... we'll call it, GnayniY! OH WAIT! They are actually separated manifestations of THIS dude, and somehow all four can exist in one plane of existence together. It's God after all!"

Well, that's all I've got to say on the subject, so I think I'll retire from it from now on. But don't let that stop you from posting your opinion, because I shouldn't be (and haven't been) the only one posting their mind.

Let me point this out, I never really cared for Shaymin, so I just skipped the event for it, but you don't see me saying it was unnessacary. But I highly doubt my opinion will change yours and I am most definitely not ready for wall of text comebacks, so I'll just leave it here seeing as its not really that big of a deal in difference of opinions. adieu I must retire also, I am tired and still have music to radularize to.

Don't talk shit about the legendary birds.

Quote:tomguycott's post

this is pretty much perfection right here.

btw when dialga and palkia used their powers to create sinnoh heatran was born from the creation of mt. stark.

just clearing this up.

(03-03-2010, 05:15 AM)Subomi Wrote: btw when dialga and palkia used their powers to create sinnoh heatran was born from the creation of mt. stark.

just clearing this up.

We know there's a back story behind these legendaries but that doesn't mean they we're a good idea to put into the game. Back stories are no excuse.

They could of had a legendary at the top of Mt. Silver in G/S but instead they were more clever and put something else at the top.