http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4060/refb.png

It's a WIP, but i'd like some C+C along the way, i'll hopefuly have it finished soon, but any help is appreciated.

pretty dark, it hurts readability :I give some shading on the cigarrete too.

also if the eye is meant to be hollow, try fixing that becuase it looks painted right now (disregard this if it's painted though!)

Ah, i probably should have stated that its almost completely unshaded, sorry about that!

But yeah, i'm currently working on the shading and i wont leave out the eyes or the cigarette, dont worry.

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http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2918/refq.png

Quick update, also wondering, Sel-out(left) or no sel-out?

Also it's planned to more than likely be on a black background, but i'm unsure yet.

don't use a white or black background, both of them mess with your ability to see contrast and colors correctly

use a neutral blue or green

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by the way, there's literally no noticeable difference between the one with selout and the one without

Yeah, i noticedthat, the sel-out does show up better on a black background, which was one of the reasons i was going to use it, also as it makes the colours appear better as opposed to looking ridiculously dark.

But thanks for the advice either way, i'll probably go for a blue background instead

DO NOT SEL-OUT

i cant posibly stress more how people should get out of their head the idea that sel-out is NOT part of shading, or that you have/must/should sel-out everything you do.

it does work only in specific conditions on specific backgrounds but even then it looks like shit and any other regular method of shading AA included would look ten times better

its just the same a using dithering, there's literally ten people on the net who can use it properly but in the case of selout even those ten cant find a proper use for it.

Arms need some work, alos the legs make no since, they look like a cartoon character with human anatomy structure.

(07-22-2010, 04:35 PM)Francisco Cifuentes Wrote: DO NOT SEL-OUT

i cant posibly stress more how people should get out of their head the idea that sel-out is NOT part of shading, or that you have/must/should sel-out everything you do.

it does work only in specific conditions on specific backgrounds but even then it looks like shit and any other regular method of shading AA included would look ten times better

its just the same a using dithering, there's literally ten people on the net who can use it properly but in the case of selout even those ten cant find a proper use for it.

Alright, thanks, i was going to use AA in the end anyways but i figured i may aswell try it with sel-out, just to see the end result, as it's pretty easy to change back if you dont like it.

(07-22-2010, 04:40 PM)2-D Wrote: Arms need some work, alos the legs make no since, they look like a cartoon character with human anatomy structure.

Care to be more specific about what on the arms and legs needs work, it would probably help more?

If its that they're too skinny thats intentional, being that the characters a skeleton in clothes, hence why he also looks like a cartoon character.

I'm not a fan of being overly realistic as to me it ruins the point of creativity in general.

The pats are WAY too jagged. Add some AA to them.

[/quote]
Care to be more specific about what on the arms and legs needs work, it would probably help more?

If its that they're too skinny thats intentional, being that the characters a skeleton in clothes, hence why he also looks like a cartoon character.

I'm not a fan of being overly realistic as to me it ruins the point of creativity in general.
[/quote]

Well, fan or not, there must at least be some realistic stuff in tis, since it is a skelleton, I understand that the clothes should be saggy.
But in the legs it makes no since, because it doesnt sag. Also it's right hand looks nothing like a hand

(07-22-2010, 05:41 PM)Vipershark Wrote: The pats are WAY too jagged. Add some AA to them.

(07-22-2010, 05:32 PM)Skockz Wrote: Alright, thanks, i was going to use AA in the end anyways but i figured i may aswell try it with sel-out, just to see the end result, as it's pretty easy to change back if you dont like it.

(07-22-2010, 05:48 PM)2-D Wrote: Well, fan or not, there must at least be some realistic stuff in tis, since it is a skelleton, I understand that the clothes should be saggy.
But in the legs it makes no since, because it doesnt sag. Also it's right hand looks nothing like a hand

The legs are Skinnie jeans, although probably closer to drainpipes, and their skinnyness is emphasized, which is what generally happens with cartoons.

The right hand is the end of the sleeve which is covering all but fingertips, which i will be working on at some point and will hopefully be more recognisable by then.

Also just because its a skeleton doesn't mean realism is a must, how much realism somebody uses is down to their own choices.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3993/reft.png

Another minor update being the(our) right hand being shaded along with the belt holding up his sleeve, also a smaller sprite done quickly just now, and an avatar i whipped up not long ago on the left.

You should be making some lineart changes before you get too into shading. His arms are very mismatched in length, and the 'fashionable' asymmetry with the sleeves makes it even worse. The way the shirt hangs makes it feel that he's not actually wearing cloth; more like some kind of jelly/plastic substance. Even if he's wearing skinny jeans, they should still have folds and creases at the knees (actually, what knees?) and around the ankles, unless they're like; physically grafted to the bone.

In which case you might as well just make it flesh and stop trying to be faux-trendy.

(07-22-2010, 05:57 PM)Skockz Wrote:

(07-22-2010, 05:41 PM)Vipershark Wrote: The pats are WAY too jagged. Add some AA to them.

The legs are Skinnie jeans, although probably closer to drainpipes, and their skinnyness is emphasized, which is what generally happens with cartoons.

That has nothing to do with the lineart being too jagged. Add AA to the outlines.

(07-22-2010, 10:07 PM)Vipershark Wrote: That has nothing to do with the lineart being too jagged. Add AA to the outlines.

If you re-read my post theres a part specifically in bold in another quote from me, which i'll post again now:

(07-22-2010, 05:32 PM)Skockz Wrote: Alright, thanks, i was going to use AA in the end anyways but i figured i may aswell try it with sel-out, just to see the end result, as it's pretty easy to change back if you dont like it.

Grooveman i'm going to reply to your post in parts to address each point.

(07-22-2010, 08:22 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: You should be making some lineart changes before you get too into shading.

Well the plan was to address specific specific areas of the lineart as i tackle the shading i nthat area, and if this is about the AA the reason i'd be doing that last would be because if i were to change the lineart, i wouldn't have to re-do it.

(07-22-2010, 08:22 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: His arms are very mismatched in length, and the 'fashionable' asymmetry with the sleeves makes it even worse.

I actually never noticed the mis-matched arm length, i was having trouble with them due to never attempting a pose like this before, and i did try to make them as similar length as possible, but i'll work into it more.

(07-22-2010, 08:22 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: The way the shirt hangs makes it feel that he's not actually wearing cloth; more like some kind of jelly/plastic substance.

Yeah, i've always had trouble with shirts, so it would actually be hugely appreciated if you could elaborate on this and tell me how to make the shirt appear more cloth-like.

(07-22-2010, 08:22 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: he's wearing skinny jeans, they should still have folds and creases at the knees (actually, what knees?) and around the ankles, unless they're like; physically grafted to the bone.

As i've definitely stated, the reason for this is because i'm not going for photo-realism, to me this is like complaining that paper-mario sprites dont have the necessary folds in their legs, especially considering they dont have them.

(07-22-2010, 08:22 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: In which case you might as well just make it flesh and stop trying to be faux-trendy.

I can garuntee it's not about being trendy, its about keeping my character design aspects in the same way as i wish them to be to reflect mtself, which is what a personal character is all about, right?

I'm merely looking for suggestions to help make the appearance "smoother" i guess is the best word, rather than going for a completely realistic look, otherwise i understand the jeans would cling to certain parts of his skeletal legs and possibly even fold into others, but again, this isnt the approach i was going for.

I'm not disregarding points i'm just pointing out my reasoning behind what i'm saying.