(02-24-2011, 12:20 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 06:11 PM)Kaikimi Wrote: Don't get your hopes up on this. Most actual programmers despise the thought of working on fan games.

Most, but not all.

I know. Its just so few want to work on them since they need to get their name out there on real projects (Ones that can be sold.) I'll check that link out Thanks.

(02-23-2011, 11:47 PM)Sengir Wrote: Just to give you an idea of how much time/effort is put into a game, look at Kaikimi's Project Frostfire. Kaikimi is one of the best programmers here and his project's taken multiple years. And he's using sprites, which are a lot easier/less time-consuming to program than 3D. You're looking at maybe 4-5 years minimum if you're indie team is constantly active and really productive. A lot of people I've seen use Minecraft as an example of "good game made quick", but they forget that Markus had access to nearly identical code in XNA and the fact that Minecraft's gameplay is very open.

I'm not trying to bring you down, just trying to let you know that making a game takes not only a lot of planning, but a lot of constant work

Oh I know your not. Your being realistic. I know this won't be done next year or even after but I'm willing to put the time in on the parts I can do. I understand about Minecraft. I mean even big developers don't get the games out in a year. Games take time.

(02-24-2011, 12:07 AM)Flannel bastard Wrote: I'd just like to say I really dig that Eggman design.

Glad you do. Ian is truly a great artist.

(02-24-2011, 12:20 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 06:11 PM)Kaikimi Wrote: Don't get your hopes up on this. Most actual programmers despise the thought of working on fan games.

Most, but not all.

I would normally make a joke post about Flash, but you can make a fairly decent living off of Flash gigs (and even some actual jobs)

But in any case, you are both right. Most fangame programmers live with their parents or in college dorms funded by their parents. You see, once you're on your own and working as a programmer for a living you'd hardly want to waste your time on a game that can't make money nor any real fame. Go ask any game producer if he's played Super Mario 63. Now ask him if he's played Minecraft. Obviously an unfair comparison, but that's what it is. If Markus spent all that time on a fangame he'd still be a nobody. Fangames will bring you little to no credibility with the professionals and won't raise your chances for a job. Almost any sort of "real" indie game will at least get you a junior programmer job somewhere. And that's really what the indie scene is about; becoming professional.

e: damn i type way too slow

(02-24-2011, 12:56 AM)Sengir Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 12:20 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 06:11 PM)Kaikimi Wrote: Don't get your hopes up on this. Most actual programmers despise the thought of working on fan games.

Most, but not all.

I would normally make a joke post about Flash, but you can make a fairly decent living off of Flash gigs (and even some actual jobs)

But in any case, you are both right. Most fangame programmers live with their parents or in college dorms funded by their parents. You see, once you're on your own and working as a programmer for a living you'd hardly want to waste your time on a game that can't make money nor any real fame. Go ask any game producer if he's played Super Mario 63. Now ask him if he's played Minecraft. Obviously an unfair comparison, but that's what it is. If Markus spent all that time on a fangame he'd still be a nobody. Fangames will bring you little to no credibility with the professionals and won't raise your chances for a job. Almost any sort of "real" indie game will at least get you a junior programmer job somewhere. And that's really what the indie scene is about; becoming professional.

e: damn i type way too slow

True but you never know till you try. Like I said I know it'll take a while. But I want to get the ball rolling so here we are.

(02-24-2011, 01:00 AM)Plokman Wrote: True but you never know till you try. Like I said I know it'll take a while. But I want to get the ball rolling so here we are.

Actually that wasn't aimed at this project. Like I said, fangames are for those who don't need to worry about getting a job.

So it's entirely possible for you to find a programmer, but at the average programming member's age we actually are looking to start our careers. Try the Game Maker Community, they have tons of young, beginning programmers. That said, a lot of programmers like to have control over projects and are often the project leader, not average team members. We tend to go power-mad when we know that we're the key ingredient.

Quote:True but you never know till you try. Like I said I know it'll take a while. But I want to get the ball rolling so here we are.

This isn't trying. Nobody will take you seriously as a game designer when you don't design the game you're working on. You're just using a bunch of concepts and characters from other sources and essentially duct taping them together. Your role now is not designing the story or characters, it's rather just piecing them all together and hoping it works.

Take it from me, you want to get any respectability, work on something original. There is no effort or value in working on something where 90% of the content of the game isn't yours.

(02-24-2011, 12:56 AM)Sengir Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 12:20 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 06:11 PM)Kaikimi Wrote: Don't get your hopes up on this. Most actual programmers despise the thought of working on fan games.

Most, but not all.

I would normally make a joke post about Flash, but you can make a fairly decent living off of Flash gigs (and even some actual jobs)

But in any case, you are both right. Most fangame programmers live with their parents or in college dorms funded by their parents. You see, once you're on your own and working as a programmer for a living you'd hardly want to waste your time on a game that can't make money nor any real fame. Go ask any game producer if he's played Super Mario 63. Now ask him if he's played Minecraft. Obviously an unfair comparison, but that's what it is. If Markus spent all that time on a fangame he'd still be a nobody. Fangames will bring you little to no credibility with the professionals and won't raise your chances for a job. Almost any sort of "real" indie game will at least get you a junior programmer job somewhere. And that's really what the indie scene is about; becoming professional.

e: damn i type way too slow

True, it is obscenely harder to get well-known if your first big game is a fangame (with the exception of Joe Pavlina and Super Mario Crossover, and Pelikan, who made an issue of GameInformer for Sonic Fan Remix). My advice to you, Plokman, would be to focus on trying to come up with an original title before you start with a fangame.

I may sound like a hypocrite now because I myself have recently started a fangame, but I'm prioritizing my original projects way before I decide to tackle that. I think that creating fangames should be more of a hobby than something you dump tons of man hours and dedication into.

(02-24-2011, 01:13 AM)Kaikimi Wrote:

Quote:True but you never know till you try. Like I said I know it'll take a while. But I want to get the ball rolling so here we are.

This isn't trying. Nobody will take you seriously as a game designer when you don't design the game you're working on. You're just using a bunch of concepts and characters from other sources and essentially duct taping them together. Your role now is not designing the story or characters, it's rather just piecing them all together and hoping it works.

Take it from me, you want to get any respectability, work on something original. There is no effort or value in working on something where 90% of the content of the game isn't yours.

No no and again I say no! One I have designed many things for this project! Two if Square can do it with Disney then I can try to do it with these! Third I can take criticism but this is ridicules Everything I've said you've just had a Monty Python's Argument sketch answer. You don't know enough about the project to say I'm not trying. So I say your entiteled to your opinion but I don't think you understand.

(02-24-2011, 01:09 AM)Sengir Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 01:00 AM)Plokman Wrote: True but you never know till you try. Like I said I know it'll take a while. But I want to get the ball rolling so here we are.

Actually that wasn't aimed at this project. Like I said, fangames are for those who don't need to worry about getting a job.

So it's entirely possible for you to find a programmer, but at the average programming member's age we actually are looking to start our careers. Try the Game Maker Community, they have tons of young, beginning programmers. That said, a lot of programmers like to have control over projects and are often the project leader, not average team members. We tend to go power-mad when we know that we're the key ingredient.

Thanks. I understand but this forum was the only Game makers forum I could find that allowed this kind of project. I'll check out the one your talking about. Thanks again.

(02-24-2011, 01:23 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 12:56 AM)Sengir Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 12:20 AM)PortalGuru Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 06:11 PM)Kaikimi Wrote: Don't get your hopes up on this. Most actual programmers despise the thought of working on fan games.

Most, but not all.

I would normally make a joke post about Flash, but you can make a fairly decent living off of Flash gigs (and even some actual jobs)

But in any case, you are both right. Most fangame programmers live with their parents or in college dorms funded by their parents. You see, once you're on your own and working as a programmer for a living you'd hardly want to waste your time on a game that can't make money nor any real fame. Go ask any game producer if he's played Super Mario 63. Now ask him if he's played Minecraft. Obviously an unfair comparison, but that's what it is. If Markus spent all that time on a fangame he'd still be a nobody. Fangames will bring you little to no credibility with the professionals and won't raise your chances for a job. Almost any sort of "real" indie game will at least get you a junior programmer job somewhere. And that's really what the indie scene is about; becoming professional.

e: damn i type way too slow

True, it is obscenely harder to get well-known if your first big game is a fangame (with the exception of Joe Pavlina and Super Mario Crossover, and Pelikan, who made an issue of GameInformer for Sonic Fan Remix). My advice to you, Plokman, would be to focus on trying to come up with an original title before you start with a fangame.

I may sound like a hypocrite now because I myself have recently started a fangame, but I'm prioritizing my original projects way before I decide to tackle that. I think that creating fangames should be more of a hobby than something you dump tons of man hours and dedication into.

I understand. I do have some ideas but this one I want to get started. And don't get the wrong idea this is a hobby. Anyone who works on it will be allowed to work as much as they want at a given time. I mean your right a fan game is a fan game.

No no and again I say no!
maybe you should stop covering your ears and listen to what people are telling you.

One I have designed many things for this project!
Yeah, just to wrap around the characters you're using. The real focus of the game is the fact that it features a mix up of all these other characters, you're just basically throwing these in to make it feel like you're actually designing something.

Two if Square can do it with Disney then I can try to do it with these!
You're not square or Disney. They actually collaborated with each other with their own IPs and made a game, they owned the rights to all of their stuff, you're basically stealing other peoples characters and concepts to cope with the fact that you can't come up with any of them on your own.


Third I can take criticism but this is ridicules Everything I've said you've just had a Monty Python's Argument sketch answer. You don't know enough about the project to say I'm not trying. So I say your entiteled to your opinion but I don't think you understand.

I understand that this is a fan game that is blown way out of proportion like 99.99 percent of fan games. I understand well enough what it takes to make a game, as I've been doing it for about 8 years now, on my own. I know design, programming, spriting, music, you name it, I've done it. I suggest you take the advice you're getting in this topic and make something unique. I'm trying to get you to put your effort towards actually "creating" something, not just making something from something that already exists. That's what a game designer does.

If I clicked "Thank" any harder, I think I would've broken my clicking finger.

(02-24-2011, 01:56 AM)PortalGuru Wrote: If I clicked "Thank" any harder, I think I would've broken my clicking finger.

Cool.

(02-24-2011, 01:46 AM)Kaikimi Wrote: No no and again I say no!
maybe you should stop covering your ears and listen to what people are telling you.

One I have designed many things for this project!
Yeah, just to wrap around the characters you're using. The real focus of the game is the fact that it features a mix up of all these other characters, you're just basically throwing these in to make it feel like you're actually designing something.

Two if Square can do it with Disney then I can try to do it with these!
You're not square or Disney. They actually collaborated with each other with their own IPs and made a game, they owned the rights to all of their stuff, you're basically stealing other peoples characters and concepts to cope with the fact that you can't come up with any of them on your own.


Third I can take criticism but this is ridicules Everything I've said you've just had a Monty Python's Argument sketch answer. You don't know enough about the project to say I'm not trying. So I say your entiteled to your opinion but I don't think you understand.

I understand that this is a fan game that is blown way out of proportion like 99.99 percent of fan games. I understand well enough what it takes to make a game, as I've been doing it for about 8 years now, on my own. I know design, programming, spriting, music, you name it, I've done it. I suggest you take the advice you're getting in this topic and make something unique. I'm trying to get you to put your effort towards actually "creating" something, not just making something from something that already exists. That's what a game designer does.

Would you listen to me here though? I have ideas that while I'm using these characters I'm using them in new ways. No I'm not just using them becuse I can't come up with anything new. Yes I know Square and Disney worked together. I can understand that you think you know everything becuse you have 8 years experience on me. and I say one more time this is a hobby!! I want to do it and am I harming you by not having a totally brand new thing? Look at how popular Mushroom Kingdom Fusion is. It even has it's sprites hosted on The Spriters Resource. And isn't that the same thing?

So I say this one more time wait and see what this evolves into. It's my life I start the way I want.

Going by what I skimmed through in the OP, you're looking for a programmer?

You're not gonna have very much luck with that-- especially not here. Try the Game Maker Community and there might be someone there willing to cooperate with you.

And that's probably the best you're going to get for an unpaid game of this "caliber." Finding a programmer for any other language will be next to impossible. "Real" programmers do not want to work on fangames, for obvious reason.

(02-24-2011, 02:08 AM)Plokman Wrote: I can understand that you think you know everything becuse you have 8 years experience on me.

He may not know "everything" but he knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do-- and so do I. There are people on this forum that are "actual" game developers, with experience with these kinds of things, and we understand not only the workload, but the mind of a professional.


One more thing-- nobody's telling you what to do. What we are doing is giving you advice that we recommend you follow if you wish to have a more successful concept. I know you think that what you're doing will be an original fangame concept, but everybody thinks that-- and they're usually wrong.

---

(02-23-2011, 08:46 PM)Plokman Wrote: I say fighting games are mishmashes.

:|

(02-24-2011, 02:17 AM)Alpha Six Wrote: Going by what I skimmed through in the OP, you're looking for a programmer?

You're not gonna have very much luck with that-- especially not here. Try the Game Maker Community and there might be someone there willing to cooperate with you.

And that's probably the best you're going to get for an unpaid game of this "caliber." Finding a programmer for any other language will be next to impossible. "Real" programmers do not want to work on fangames, for obvious reason.

(02-24-2011, 02:08 AM)Plokman Wrote: I can understand that you think you know everything becuse you have 8 years experience on me.

He may not know "everything" but he knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do-- and so do I. There are people on this forum that are "actual" game developers, with experience with these kinds of things, and we understand not only the workload, but the mind of a professional.


One more thing-- nobody's telling you what to do. What we are doing is giving you advice that we recommend you follow if you wish to have a more successful concept. I know you think that what you're doing will be an original fangame concept, but everybody thinks that-- and they're usually wrong.

---

(02-23-2011, 08:46 PM)Plokman Wrote: I say fighting games are mishmashes.

:|

Yeah I kinda guessed that. I can understand that you all have more experiences and I respect that. But I do want to at least try to make this. I mean you never know right?

Most fan games are hobbies and this one is no different. From what I gather The Gamers Resource sites are built for those making fan games or sprite comics. While this isn't what everyone is doing it is what I'm doing at the moment. I want to try to head a fan game before I head a true game. Crawl before you walk.

Oh and that fighting game thing was directed at Mugen. I was not claiming that all fighting games were Mishmashes.

I mean you never know right?
Actually, you usually do know. That's kind of what we're saying. We've been saying exactly why making a fan game isn't the best thing.

I want to try to head a fan game before I head a true game. Crawl before you walk.
I understand your whole desire for making a fan game. But in programming, there's nothing like seeing your own characters move around the screen, doing the exact things you designed them to do. Why sing someone else's song when you could sing your own?

(02-24-2011, 05:52 PM)Zapchu25 Wrote: I mean you never know right?
Actually, you usually do know. That's kind of what we're saying. We've been saying exactly why making a fan game isn't the best thing.

I want to try to head a fan game before I head a true game. Crawl before you walk.
I understand your whole desire for making a fan game. But in programming, there's nothing like seeing your own characters move around the screen, doing the exact things you designed them to do. Why sing someone else's song when you could sing your own?

Not to be rude but no you don't ever know unless you try and thats what I'm doing. Also Yes I totally agree thats why I want to see this through since I created characters for it specifically.

I have ideas that are 100% my own (Including the characters I made for this) That I'll be posting later. And they will be my own concepts. I have a few but I want to do this.

(02-24-2011, 06:15 PM)Plokman Wrote:

(02-24-2011, 05:52 PM)Zapchu25 Wrote: I mean you never know right?
Actually, you usually do know. That's kind of what we're saying. We've been saying exactly why making a fan game isn't the best thing.

I want to try to head a fan game before I head a true game. Crawl before you walk.
I understand your whole desire for making a fan game. But in programming, there's nothing like seeing your own characters move around the screen, doing the exact things you designed them to do. Why sing someone else's song when you could sing your own?

Not to be rude but no you don't ever know unless you try and thats what I'm doing. Also Yes I totally agree thats why I want to see this through since I created characters for it specifically.

I have ideas that are 100% my own (Including the characters I made for this) That I'll be posting later. And they will be my own concepts. I have a few but I want to do this.

Well why not just let your own characters shine, instead of putting them in the shadow of an already lisenced franchise?
Everyone here is advising you to make your own game. If you can't take this advice, or any other advice for that matter, then there are going to be some major problems here.