*ahem* BEWARE OF EXCESSIVE AND POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE RANT

Guys, here's the reality. Sonic the hedgehog IS a gimmick. He always has been. The reason people don't like newer games is because (regardless of how bad the last game was) people assume that the next Sonic game is going to defy your expectations.
Sonic 1 - Good
Sonic 2 - Improvement +Different + New Stuff
Sonic 3 - Improvement +Different + New Stuff
Sonic Adventure - Improved +Different +New Stuff

So, people expect vast improvements in the next Sonic game and end up disappointed because their expectations were either met or lowered. You can only go so far.

But there is another, bigger factor. In the older games, Sonic was very basic. As with all basic things, they are defined differently by different people, and I'm amazed that some people still fail to understand this concept.
Here are some of the things that different fans have defined classic Sonic as:
1. Fast, quick, and clever
2. Cocky, strategic, and accurate
3. Bored, vigilante, and epic
4. Speedy, rolly, and tumbly
5. Mickey Mouse in a hedgehog costume
6. Black eyes. Sole-less, buckle-less shoes. Stout. Fat. Cartoony.
7. ETC.

Due to these different interpretations, With the exception of Sonic Critics (who say Sonic is bad just so they can be popular), I guarantee, at least 80% of Classic Sonic fans will be disappointed with Sonic Generations, whether from peer pressure (considering Sonic isn't THE cool game anymore) or from lacking the new flair it had when you were young or even from being a new Sonic game.

I say, if SEGA can't impress and capture the childhood of they're quote, unquote "loyal" "classic" "Sonic fans" in 2 years, they should just give up on them. Why try to impress someone who cannot be impressed? It'll only bring you down. Yes, the old Sonic games were the greatest games of their day and are classics that are still adored by even modern fans, but that was then, this is now.

People who hate new Sonic games because they are new should grow up and move on. The 90s are never coming back, deal with it.

People who hate old Sonic games because of their bitchy fanbase should try a little more empathy. They once loved something too.

Sonic is a video game character; a phenomenon that does not exist. The fact that people still argue over this is completely ludicrous.

Sonic games: ALL of them sucked. ALL of them were awesome.
Sonic 1 - The beginning of a new game - Simplistic, minor glitches
Sonic 2 - The adventure continues + 2 Player - New character, unfinished
Sonic 3 - The adventure improves - ANOTHER new character, split in 2
Sonic CD - Faster, More musical, New Gimmick - Different soundtracks, gimmick
Sonic Adventure - Sonic with a voice and 3D rendered - Slower, narrower audience
Sonic Adventure 2 - New story, Shadow the hedgehog - Shadow the hedgehog
Sonic Heroes - New gameplay style, faster - Too many characters, annoying and simple
Shadow the hedgehog - New gameplay style, darker - excessive swearing, Sonic isn't playable, 4kids voice actors
Sonic the hedgehog 06 - New story, amazing graphics and soundtrack - Glitchy, 4kids voice actors, excessive characters, relationship issues
Sonic Unleashed - Amazing graphics, gameplay, and soundtrack. Robotnik is the main villain - Slower, faster, werehog, frustrating, new Sonic game, 4kids voice actors
Sonic Colors - Good Graphics, soundtrack, and a new voice actor - Modern Sonic game, new voice actor, Nintendo Exclusive
Sonic 4 - Graphically improved - Modern Sonic, Modern Sonic, Modern Sonic


And I swear, if SEGA "reboots the Sonic series" ONE more time, I'm going to lose my mind. You can't just "reboot the series" EVERY SINGLE FRICKIN MAINSTREAM GAME!!!



By the way, if you are a fan of Sonic, and you DON'T hate me right now, I'll be impressed. I've seen some pretty crazy Sonic fans. If you DON'T hate me (or if you do hate me and it's not related to this post) please reply quoting me. I want you to prove my assumption of Sonic fans wrong. If you do, I'll be much happier, because all this arguing about Sonic crap is just plain wrong.

End rant

I already feel better.

I'm only going to leave 1 more reply in this topic, and it'll only be aimed towards the most intelligent questions for me. After that, I NEVER wish to discuss my opinion towards the series ever again.

that was quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard, aside from the "fans hate this game because of peer pressure" bit

(04-08-2011, 10:25 PM)Vipershark Wrote: that was quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard, aside from the "fans hate this game because of peer pressure" bit

Without a doubt, but I sure as hell feel a lot better getting that off my chest.
(You don't believe in peer pressure? It applies to everything humanly possible. How many fans REALLY hate Sonic? Honestly? Think about it.)

After seeing your reply I can only assume it's going to go downhill from here, so I'm just going to leave this topic alone now. Feel free to yell at me.

no, i was /agreeing/ with the peer pressure part

(04-08-2011, 06:38 PM)Mighty Jetters Wrote:

(04-08-2011, 06:32 PM)Sweet Hot Vegas Wrote: Silver is just another useless friend the sonic series can go without.

And to be honest with you, the majority of sonic characters aren't needed.

Do you want the series to only have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, and maybe Shadow? Sorry, but the series would be pretty boring.

Actually, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Chaotix + Mighty, the Metal Sonic's, and Robotnik are enough for me, and probably many others.

(04-08-2011, 08:25 PM)Mighty Jetters Wrote: TBH I don't care what anyone says about the Storybook series I liked it a lot. And Caliburn became one of my favorite characters ever since. He's so cute.

Sorry I have nothing against you but, I just gotta say this. The way you keep announcing how you like the most shitty Sonic games and Characters because they're "cute" without any other logical reasoning is only making you more of a target, especially when you said you wouldn't post here anymore.

i'll never understand how nerds can drop a billion words about a cartoon rat and say "yeah, that looks okay" afterwards

Just have classic Sonic play the 2D levels and modern Sonic do the Adventure style levels. Next, give me modern Eggman plotting evil / engaging in HI-LARIOUS hijinx with classic Robotnik and such. FInally, keep going in the direction of Colors and bring back a good mixture of exploring, platforming, and ROLLIN AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND. Then I'm sold.

i'm only going to post once in this topic, and it's in reply to the best poster. *smugface no jutsu*

they should give sonic laser vision next.

Just jumping into the whole characters debate, the main reason people dislike the use of multiple playable characters these days is that it nearly always turns into a Genre Roulette - Sonic Adventure 2 was practically three different games in one. Heroes had the opposite problem - all four teams were almost exactly the same. Sonic 3&K used the same style of gameplay for each character, but Sonic, Tails and Knuckles each had abilities that made them stand out. The ONLY game that did this in recent memory was Sonic and the Black Knight.

Now, for the characters themselves... Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman are the bare minimum, I reckon. But beyond that... If there's any character I like to keep, it's Blaze. Aside from that 06, which seriously messes up her supposed backstory to this day despite resetting itself, Blaze has actually had some decent character development in her two games, and she's a surprisingly well-rounded character with a proper personality. Heck, players still learn neat little things about her when we think we know everything (e.g., her fear of heights, as shown in one scene in Rush Adventure). It's part of why she's my favourite character aside from Sonic himself. Hell, playing as her was the only good part about Sonic 06, no joke. It helps that she had the homing attack mapped to a different button than the jump button, and she could perform the friggn' Shinryūken, to boot.

And just to note, Silver was gimmicky, alright, but it was worse than just a simple shoe-horned gimmick, he was a blatant Gravity Gun ripoff that wasn't even fun. There are far less blatant methods of showing off the damn physics engine.

(04-09-2011, 03:16 AM)Candescence Wrote: Just jumping into the whole characters debate, the main reason people dislike the use of multiple playable characters these days is that it nearly always turns into a Genre Roulette - Sonic Adventure 2 was practically three different games in one. Heroes had the opposite problem - all four teams were almost exactly the same. Sonic 3&K used the same style of gameplay for each character, but Sonic, Tails and Knuckles each had abilities that made them stand out. The ONLY game that did this in recent memory was Sonic and the Black Knight.

And all the handheld games, pretty much. Which you're aware of, since you mentioned Blaze.

Sonic Adventure did show that drastically different character gameplay styles can work in the same stage; but SA2's seprate level schemes, focused on making stages tailor to each gameplay style, which worked just fine, TBH.

Hm, I remember there was a hack of SA2 where City Escape was played as Eggman. It would be neat to see that with the other characters.

(04-08-2011, 11:23 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: Sorry I have nothing against you but, I just gotta say this. The way you keep announcing how you like the most shitty Sonic games and Characters because they're "cute" without any other logical reasoning is only making you more of a target, especially when you said you wouldn't post here anymore.

Alright then, forget I said I wouldn't post here anymore for a minute.

I don't like this discussion in general because everyone here's one-sided about most Sonic games being terrible, but I simply want to point out that you all pretty much share the same opinion. I have my own opinion, the Sonic games were awesome. Our opinions about the series are different, so there's no need to try and convince me that Sonic's getting bad and the characters aren't good, it honestly won't work. I understand I can't get any of you to change your perspective either, so that's fine.

Outside of TSR, Sonic has a huge fanbase with tons of fans who loved the games, and are always looking forward to the next thing. So while you guys are losing hope in Sonic, it's no reason to tell me I'm wrong because I appreciate the games. I first posted here to say that I like this and that, like the rest of you are doing, then everyone comes at me and says Silver did nothing good for the series and every game I like is bad.

TLDR: Well we all feel differently about it and have our own opinions, and I don't dislike you guys for feeling how you do so that's that. Now I'm really done posting since there's not much to discuss here anymore.

EDIT: I'm just saying I haven't seen much here besides out of the most recent games, Colors being the only good, and many others are bad.

(04-09-2011, 07:34 AM)Mighty Jetters Wrote: I don't like this discussion in general because everyone here's one-sided about most Sonic games being terrible,

wrong. wrong wrong wrong wrong.

But some of them are almost objectively bad.

Sonic 06 was just plain unfinished. It looked and sounded good; but it was broken. I can't call a broken game good.
Secret Rings was interesting, but the control scheme was borked; making the game un-fun to play. Black Knight improved things, but there were still sections where the engine just wasn't functioning right. That stage where you run along the disappearing road of light as Knuckles. IT WAS HELL.
Sonic Heroes was repetitive. And clunky. And brought back characters for the sole purpose of doing NOTHING with them. What.

And then there are the spinoffs.
Sonic Spinball. Ahahaha(kill me now)
That one Mario Party ripoff who's name I can't-- Sonic Shuffle! What the fuck was up with that one?

The key to liking a series, but not being percieved as a hyper-defensive idiot is taking the series for what it is. I like Sonic. While my first game starring him was Sonic Adventure 2 (meaning I like the modern sonic ethos a lot more than the classic one), I'm aware of the flaws SA2 has. I really like Unleashed, but get why it's unpopular. I'm not a fan of Sonic 1/2, but I understand why they're so well liked.

Official Admin-Approved Topic Derail- I want to test a theory.
Think of a series that you love. Now tell me at least one thing about that series that you know is terrible, but you love the series in spite of that. Or maybe even because of that.

Ristar - its terrible that they ignored the franchise in favor of making more sonic games.

I do understand what you're saying. I'm not being defensive, as I for one (and most likely only one) just plain liked all the games I've played. If there was something I thought was bad, or wasn't that good, I would say it. I do really like the modern series a lot more than the classic, I agree.

I don't want you all to take my words the wrong way, I'm just the one that stands out by thinking differently than the rest. Repeating myself, I never got to play '06, but I want to, and I know I'll like it, because... that's just how I am. That's OK if you guys don't agree with me, I'm just saying even if you say some of them weren't great, I'll just fail to agree, to be brutally honest. I just plain liked them all. I know you think I'm weird but that's how I feel.

I will admit that Secret Rings' controls were a bit difficult, but I enjoyed it anyway.

And no more stating I won't post here anymore because I had to reply to that.

Also one final thing, the anime voices were my favorite and the new ones are verging on terrible for some characters. I'll say that much.

I also enjoyed Ristar a good bit.