I wasn't trying to imply you were only complaining, Rokkan. I have read your posts and they do have many valid points in them and you know your Sonic stuff. I respect that. I wasn't just talking about you it was everyone. I guess when I wrote that I was kinda peeved that everyone was saying that Generations wasn't going to be a good game and how other Sonic games had so many flaws, and the like. I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. My points of view go one way and the other's go another, and it's kinda hard to get my point across without starting an argument. I tried to speak my mind accurately and not accidentally say anything irrational or hurtful. Since I'm not completely Sonic-savvy I don't possess that much discussion potential and can only post my opinions about general things. I sadly just don't know my stuff. That's the actual reason I don't post here much. That, and most everyone agreeing on the same things (which is that Sonic's not doing well which was why I dislike the subject of the thread but I like it for discussing other things).

So um, I apologize if your feelings got hurt. Just wanted you all to understand where I'm getting at (I'm probably over-explaining myself here but whatever).

(06-28-2011, 03:18 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: I will profess that I don't know Sonic Retro's community as well as you do, but it reallyu doesn't feel like whatever complaints they're having are getting much outside coverage. When SSF4AC was said to have broken DLC restrictions, the complaints basically resonated through every online gaming news site. When there was a movement for US residents to do a mass-mail project to Nintendo of America concerning the release of some high-profile Wii titles, that also got heavy coverage. Destructoid even got heavily involved.

I think it's due to this:

(06-28-2011, 03:18 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: maybe those outside the fandom aren't taking them seriously; or just don't actually care

Because people are dumb and think that any complaint regarding Sonic is dumb.
"haha sonic fans swallow everything from SEGA they're terrible"
"wow sonic fans complain everything from SEGA they're terrible"

I just translate that to "I eat a lot of shit from other dudes' assholes"

(06-28-2011, 03:18 PM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote: I mean shit - even though I've played the Genesis games, I don't think I've ever done the 'rolling down hills for momentum' trick, and wouldn't even have heard about it if not for your posts in this thread. The absence of it in other Sonic games hasn't prevented me from enjoying them. I can see why it would be a concern for you since it's being touted as 'classic' sonic; but when a lot of the reviwers and journalists from outside the fandom are saying it satisfies their definition of 'classic', unless someone takes the time to get it out there to say otherwise, the general playerbase are gonna just shrug their shoulders.

I plead you and anyone else that feels this way to take your time and try to beat the original Sonic 1 without savestates. Just replay it as many times as you need to beat it.

Edit: To Mighty Jetters: Well we kinda both overreacted, I'm sorry too!! We both were pissed for the same thing, basically, just on polar opposites.

Well, I do like reading your posts so don't get mad. :c

Honestly, I tend to skip over text walls half the time but I like to read yours. They do make sense. I do understand your points on things.

So yeah, gimme some Musical Plant Zone.

bleh, sorry, it was sort of immature of me to act this way. I was just sort of pissed due to other things besides the things that I was complaining, sorry!!

It's cool, I don't really ever get mad at people and we all get ticked sometimes.

Aaaanyway, wouldn't it be cool to see Tikal in the game somewhere? As well as something Chaos-y.

Just played the demo and to be completely honest I didn't notice anything wrong with it like people were saying.

it played pretty smoothly for the most part, yeah it had some down points but it didn't hamper the game play that badly.

See thats what I don't understand. I get it that current sonic games have some flaws, thats a given, but it seems that they are often blown out of proportion as they are rarely game breaking and I personally often get used to them fast.

again, it's the fanbase.

a lot of them tend to over react to one small thing and complain about it, while possibly making up several things they notice. Then they want a game exactly the way they want it, and sonic team does their thing and at least tries to please them.

the fanbase no longer knows what it wants and because of that like grooveman implied the old S. team gets pressured by thousands of complaints. This is probably why a new sonic game comes out every year.

sonic is my name and skiping walls of text is my game.

nobody said that the game isn't good

everyone was saying that although quality is present there are worrying faults that should be fixed

the faults can be easily fixed but they make the game feel a lot worse than it is or could be

spin-dash is completely broken

the player is rewarded by spamming a broken move instead of legitimate skill

the original classic games were defined by rewarding skill with speed and having speed as a sign of skill

if you want to make classic sonic work you have to follow this for it is the core concept of it

rolling is the most essential ability in the original game and it is useless here

taking away control from the player when it is not needed is extremely dumb

blablabla metaphor about a fighting game with a character with the ability to spam broken hadoukens blablabla


since everyone is not getting it why having a useless roll and an extremely broken spin-dash is a big deal, i think it has to do with people not understanding this:

sonic is not about just playing stages to get through them, otherwise it'd be a dumb, easy, game, for you always have one ring with you, making deaths be extremely situational
and if it were about it, why have multiple paths, you're only playing the stage once, right?

sonic is about replaying levels to time-attack and score attack, it's about learning how to be efficient at the game, it's about going fast by being skillful and playing it well. this is the core of it. compare the video I posted a couple pages back on the player being really fast at GHZ in Sonic 1 to a first-timer.

i won't complain if modern games doesn't have that design, for they can be really good and well-designed games by themselves (Colors for instance), but if you're mimicking classic sonic gameplay, you can't just do the opposite of what it was meant to be like. specially if it's broken by itself, making Sonic (which is already an easy game) even easier and a lot less interesting.

see: playing a game in which you use cheat codes to max out the level of your characters or to make you have a special bar that is always full and it doesn't deplete after using the special move. it makes the game be fun for five minutes, while the game itself, without those cheat codes, might be frustrating at times, for sometimes you'd wish to use a special move when you couldn't, or that you wish your character was stronger in certain heated battles that you felt being really pressured by the enemies' deadly attacks, but that's what makes it be compelling for long periods of time, it is the challenge and what can you make of a game with its restrictions and liberties, for a game doesn't exist if you don't have the possibility, or the feeling of the possibility, to lose.

Go awesome text walls from Rokkan! Everything you've said up there is entirely correct. I honestly don't know exactly how the Spin Dash feels since I can't play the game myself.

Games are about being skillful with what few abilities you posses (see Donkey Kong where you could only jump over barrels) and showing up the bad guys who have tons of cheap attacks.

I did enjoy Spin Dashing everywhere in the old games because going recklessly fast is really fun for me. Flying free through the sky at high speeds gets me pumped and gives me a feeling of intensity, action and excitement. The Sonic games were fun for this as well. I feel this rush of adrenaline and then NOTHING CAN STOP ME! ...

...Yeah, I think I'm getting carried away now.

However, when you are in a game where there are multiple characters you would want them to come up with new abilities to separate them. Tails and Knuckles had quite a few tricks up ttheir sleeves... Well two.

Slight subject change, but does anyone think there's a possibility for another chao garden? Although it seems unlikely, I'm really hoping for it.

I would LOVE to see a Chao garden, but I highly doubt we'll see one again in a Sonic game at least. They haven't done one for like what, 7 years now? I just can't see them doing it as much as I'd like to.

Heck they could make a standalone Chao garden, but give Chao fans something :/

Who's up for a Chao Adventure. Also featuring Chao in Space 3.