Typically the thing is people who make the programs or scripts hand them out to people who they feel are trustworthy. They don't want them handing out the models and whatnot. Obviously one big example is the Unleashed script. The guy who heavily helped with the script, Link, didn't want the models handed out to anyone unless he did it himself. He showed that when he posted them on Garrysmod.org. And most of us are going to abide by what they say. Of course we'll occasionally ask if they're still keeping everything under wraps, and sometimes they won't be. But if they are, we continue to abide by it. And another reason we don't release models can be because they have issues, or we don't want them getting involved with some specific groups who are gonna ruin the models. There's other instances where we fear the company may do something involving the game's assets if released because that CAN happen. And probably another fairly big reason is because the rips are from a demo and not the retail game. Gildor does that with his uModel program. No updates till game's launch. So there's some insight as to why people keep things to themselves.

Thanks for explaining that for the people who didn't know that side of it. I can't say I ever *completely* agreed with that side, though I concede to certain points in it, but its good for people who haven't heard both sides to be aware of the other.

See, I can understand where people are coming from on that side, especially when it comes to Sonic models.

I get that they don't want them turned into simple recolors. I also understand the desire to keep the credit for the model with SEGA.

On those points, you get zero argument from me. Where I take issue, though, is in the reaction to it.

Where would we be if one or two assholes caused these kinds of reactions for every tool released? No BrawlBox, no BRRES Viewer, No Street Fighter IV Assets Explorer, no nothing.

We'd be in a relative Dark Ages, that's where. Ignore the morons, or come down on them, but don't take it out on everyone else.

My view as to ripped models that are extracted from a game is that it detracts you from the whole 3d modeling aspect. If you have what you need. "Why model anyways"? Its things like that pop into my head. Why should I ever attempt to improve myself if I can get why I need from premade content? Never do you claim the model is made by you. Especially if you show it to someone and they asked if you made it.

I've been working with 3d modeling for quite a while. Sure its fun to have a ripped model to mess with like lets say you didn't know how to approach going about rigging a model. I sure did, then I got to see how a model was "supposed" to be rigged. Thus I took what I saw from how the rig was set up and applied it to my own modeling creations thus I improved with not only rigging a but my modeling aesthetics on how proper edge flow was done. So in that way its good to see ripped things. Edit: Thats how I learned how to do human rigs! haha

But others use 3d models to claim they have them and or made them which is completely wrong. And your only hurting yourself. I only use ripped models for studying purposes also cause they are cool to look at.

@Tiberious We might as well not have had anyone rip the models or make extractors anyways since most can't stand what others do about recolors or edits. It would be "Hey if you want this model do it yourself" sorta thing. And we are all glad these types of things are out there. No hassle. But things like Sonic models come off differently don't know why but they do.

As a modeler myself I hate it when people claim my work as their own. Same goes with coding and spending the time to do that. Like with Noesis for example he want people to credit him for using that ripper to get the content out of a game. And not to have people saying "Hey I did this myself"or just be very vague. Thats the kind of stuff that makes people like Kentilian and Link upset and the others who put their time and effort to do this.

Tossing out the recolor/edit argument, as the reasons its silly have been driven into the ground many times, than I guess that people stealing others' work is about the last argument. All I'd like to say is that the number of people who actually DO claim that other's rips are their own work are the minority. By a lot. The silent majority's opinion is NOT necessarily equal to that of the vocal minority's.

So I really hope that's not your whole reason for disliking the sharing of this kinda stuff because by your logic, knives shouldn't exist because they might end up hurting people and stores shouldn't exist because things might get stolen from them. If you truly believe that things that are generally good shouldn't happen based on a small potential for a bad thing, and a minor bad thing at that, then I have nothing to say to you.

Besides if anyone was ever really bothered by something like that, they could simply flash proof that they had done it and the moron who stole their work would be IMMEDIATELY put to shame. Though for anyone to be truly bothered by something so harmless and petty in the first place says a lot about them.

(07-11-2011, 12:30 AM)Shadowth117 Wrote: Besides if anyone was ever really bothered by something like that, they could simply flash proof that they had done it and the moron who stole their work would be IMMEDIATELY put to shame. Though for anyone to be truly bothered by something so harmless and petty in the first place says a lot about them.

So wait its wrong for me to be upset that they took my work or something like that? And claimed it as there own. That this is harmless and petty? I would have to say your wrong about that. This goes with just about anything that is created content. It still doesn't change the fact that they claimed it in the first place.

Its different I suppose if someone claims a ripped model as their own though. That says a lot about the person who does.

Personally I'm fine with ripped models as I said in my post above post, as there are good reasons to have ripped models. But then again it can come to an expense of the down side which can happen.

Sure you can have knifes be sold in stores but they put warnings on them telling you to be cautious and not to do certain things with them. As with any product in stores there is always a warning such as keep away from small children may cause choking hazard. So if you read the readme in Noesis it talks about what should be stated and such. It only makes sense.

Stuff will end up happening anyways. I'm personally am fine with it since I know it will happen I'm working on my own script for .gno format. And once I get it done it'll get released. Only because I have no problem with it being out there. Same with the .model script(If get confirmation from Link). Just for some people reasons for not releasing can be just because they don't want to. And it all comes down to really is trust. Which I've heard straight up from some of these people who have worked on it.

I have my reasons why I don't release things on here. Its a hassle for me or else I would have done it by now. I got a lot of stuff that could be uploaded right now.

I'm all fine for people ripping and I'd love to have the resources out there for people to use to do it themselves. Since its much easier that way. But there will always be something that stops it from happening. No stopping that.

Except theft by random people really IS harmless. It happens all the time and you know what? I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have any way to disprove their claims. If it was something really important you had planned on using commercially in the first place I than I have an extremely hard time believing that you were thinking too much about it. Just to be clear, its not that the people who do steal things aren't jerks, but I just don't think they ever do enough to be worth throwing a fit over.

That's completely fine if you don't want to upload rips as well. That's fine if you have stuff you COULD release as rips. There's no reason to even mention it though if you don't plan on releasing them anywhere.

And finally as for your "taking the easy way out" idea on rips, not everyone is an artist. Not everyone WANTS to be an artist. There's a reason why in credit reels you see that people are devoted to one particular, usually very specific job. I'm sorry if I would find it a bit dickish to tell a serious programmer "LEARN2SPRITE" or "LEARN2MODEL" just because he wanted to make a decent mario fangame.

Its that its for commercial usage pfft. All I care is that I get credited for what I did is that so wrong to get credit for what you put time into? Well whatever really doesn't matter.

Reason being I even say about releasing is because I do want to. I can't seem to figure out how it even works on this site or else I would have. Before you go and direct me to link about how the rules are done for submissions stuff. Yes I've looked and have attempted that and have failed. When I tried creating the stuff it just would not work for me.

Sorry I'm the one who doesn't approved of using content like that for real purposes since it derails from having spent the time to actually make something worth while. If a serious programmer wants to make sounds he can do it himself. Is it hard? Maybe? Should he just not try? No he should try first. Same with modeling or spriting. It makes things more memorable. Now before you go on about saying this is wrong and people have a right to do as they choose on how to make something. Its just this is the more original approach. Of course your going to end up using something made. Everyone does that, even the pros. Sorry but I have a view that I should know most of everything I can. Whether it be Programming , Modeling, Animating, Textures. So I can work on a project. Why? Because resources are limited so you have to do it yourself. And honestly if your a serious programmer you would know how to do other things as well. But thats my view on things seeing as I do it myself (not everyone is like me).

Just because you're well rounded doesn't doesn't mean others are or even should be in my opinion. Not much else for me to say here though, we've got different views.

As for not being able to figure out how to release stuff to the site, my apologies. I did try and explain as much as possible on it. If you feel like PMing or MSNing me about it I've no problem with helping.

(07-11-2011, 10:18 AM)Shadowth117 Wrote: I'm sorry if I would find it a bit dickish to tell a serious programmer "LEARN2SPRITE" or "LEARN2MODEL" just because he wanted to make a decent mario fangame.

Well you see, I don't know any serious programmers that make fangames.

Yeah, hobbyists maybe, but any developer trying to make programming his means of living would not make a Mario fangame when he could be earning money to live off of.



Other than that if someone is a hobbyist I don't see why not to use models like these, ignoring that technically they are breaking copyright (which apparently quite a few of the game companies on the site are ok with so i guess it's ok?)

Well the hobbyists are what I was really referring to. As for worrying about copyrights, at least 80% of Youtube would be gone if people cared much about that.