knew I would be among the last, the mine was pretty bad even

what.

Why am I in beginners.

better question

why arent the tiers even


what the hell would you need it to be 11, 12, 16 for thats completely retarded

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and not balanced at all they should all be as similar as possible

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one tier would go on longer than the others

I'd hate to say this NOW, but there should've been a cap on how many people would join to even out things for later.

beginners can do team matches i guess, might speed things but even then that's still a pretty unfair idea.

Oh I'm going to get my ass handed to me on a platter aren't I.

BRING IT ON

hell yes, I'm going to get owned so badly.

woot.

(07-17-2011, 07:46 PM)Omega Wrote: what.

Why am I in beginners.

I definately think you should've been put in intermediate but to be fair, you seem to have put less effort in this entry than the Mario sprites you post on MFGG which I love. I know you could've done better :>

But yeah, as 1up said the tiers should probably be balanced? Maybe take a few from beginners and put them in intermediate? I dunno that's my opinion...

why i am not in expert tier.

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even when considering responsability is one of the most important skills everyone knows i'm pro at this.

fine then, i'll quit this unbalanced shit of uneven contestants.

You know, if everyone just finished their prelims completely like they were supposed to there wouldn't be debates over whether incompletedness should impact tier placement or not.

Then again, everyone would have finished their prelims completely if it didn't take so long, which has been complained about a lot already so I think we've all seen that shit.

The prelims will basically completely cripple this year's TUGS- it's already caused fifty people out of eighty to drop out, and the aftershocks of it are causing great discontent and outright quitting. Hopefully later contests won't suffer as much, having learned from these mistakes.

I wish we had started right away instead of "prelims start in a few weeks, then 2 weeks after that round 1 will begin".

You're only gonna drag out laziness, which is what happened, I know I'm not the only one who felt this way either. Another reason why prelims was such a struggle was how long it was and it just got most of us really bored due to wanting to start the actual thing. (which is what we only cared about)

but whatever what's done is done, now's the time to try to actually balance everything out and PLAN shit so the rest of TUGS can actually have some meaning.

Let's put the past behind us and focus on what we can do to make this contest efficient. Chris needs to whip up the criteria for round 1 so we can actually start rollin'. Everybody's displaced, live with it for now. If you continue to complain about where you were placed, this competition will never be successful. Let's stop asking questions and get on with the competition.

Do you think I'm satisfied with my placement? Hell no, but if I continue to rant on about it, I only know that this contest will never begin.

Okay, this post is going to feel like it has 100 hours of jet lag not only because I have been working all day and just got in, but also because I have a LOT to say and no matter how quickly I type, the sheer amount of mind-boggling schlock I have to cram in is fixing to give me a brain aneurysm.

I also apologize personally to Ceey, who wanted this all put behind us at this point by the time I posted this.

I guess I'll start with the biggest argument, which is also the only real reason I'm posting at all:

(07-17-2011, 04:26 PM)another coyote not that one Wrote: i demand to know why pik, des, and djvenom are in intermediate but starsock, x0_000, and ever are in expert

(07-17-2011, 04:27 PM)when i have sex i think of tsr Wrote: FUCK YOUR SHIT, NO WAY IN HELL ARE DJVENOM, UNTITLED, PIK AND DES IN MIDDLE WHEN CLEAR, AND SOME sires IVE NEVER HEARD OF AND ARE THEREFORE INSIGNIFICANT ARE IN ADVANCED

(07-17-2011, 04:32 PM)another coyote not that one Wrote: so the way they were judged had nothing to do with skill gotcha

(07-17-2011, 04:38 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote: what they didn't do doesn't have any bearing on skill, though. which is the sole point of a preliminary round

(07-17-2011, 04:41 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote: addendum:
im not saying being penalized for what you didn't do is bad in general, im saying it doesn't make sense to apply it to the preliminary round, which is about determining skill level

I can tell that parts of what is said in these quotes are meant to be facetious in terms of one person being selected for one rank while another was not. AND YET there was consistent requests to get people boosted up when it was initially judged that their work wasn't as complete as it should be, to the point that the rank lists were rearranged. This is NOT the way a competition should be run. If you wanted to have a say in rating material, you should have asked to be appointed as a judge, OR you should have opted for an approach to voting where all the contestants got an opportunity to vote.

What REALLY gets me though is just how frivolously you throw the term "skill" around. Don't get me wrong, I KNOW that the spriters you opted to get boosted up are excessively talented, but tell me where the ability to complete a job not only effectively, but also efficiently and quickly, is shoved to the side in favor of the ability to get a job done effectively only sometimes?

If you answer half of the questions of a test not only completely correct, but above the expectations of those administering the test, and refuse to answer the other half of the test which is worth an equal value of your grade, you'd be INCREDIBLY lucky to be considered for anything other than a 50% mark.

If you run so fast you reach the halfway point of a marathon two whole hours before your opponents and can make even MORE time between you and them by the time you reach the finish line, but decide to just sit back at the halfway point and come in dead last, you don't come in first by default. What you MIGHT get is all of your fans wanting to tear you apart for being a total jackass.

The most important analogy of all, however, is this: Consider two talented people vying for an artistic job, drawing or design or anything like that. There's limited space for hires, and it's down to you and one other person for the last position. The other person brings in their work on the day of the deadline not only looking great, but all complete and all on time. You, on the other hand, bring in only a third of the requested project, one third of it being incredibly gorgeous, but the rest of it left barely started or with nothing at all in a project that requires all three completed parts. And then you get the job because your reputation precedes you and you MIGHT do everything you've been asked to do EVENTUALLY.

HOWEVER, there IS a side to this argument that I totally understand. Mind you, I know this was said once or twice before this quoted post, don't bent out of shape since I didn't quote you, this is just the most detailed explanation of said argument:

(07-17-2011, 05:05 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote:

Quote:Not to mention the fact that it's kind of hard to judge something that isn't there????? Can't judge a baker on his pie-making skills when all you're given is the crust. Would you rather he just completely exclude the members who submitted unfinished entries?

i can see this being the trail of thought here, but in the three main instances (des/pik/jar) there are examples that clearly outplace some of the other entries in expert. what is there shows where they should be. at this point the fact they are being downgraded solely because of that fact, not skill, is the issue.

that is the point.

im also confused about starsock and xgamer being in expert but not djvenom. the three of their entries are kind of around the same level
(no offense!!! i would put them in intermediate personally, but)

It's an issue with validity, and here it is described well instead of just huffing the word "skill" out of your ass a hundred more times. If those who have done work in the past that is practically beyond the realm of expert, they shouldn't be dumped in a lower tier because they would completely decimate the competition, yadda yadda yadda. Even so, it's not as if they have anything to gain from being placed in the lower tier and doing well there, and frankly if they only get half their entries done EVERY time, I don't think that the lower tiered contestants have much to worry about.

As unlikely as that sounds, I can safely say I believe at least ONE of the guys bumped up is just gonna end up dropping out because of personal reasons. Not their fault or anything if everyday life has to come first over an art competition on some random forum that doesn't garner much of a reward other than to be considered the winner, but still, if it happens, then what was the point of even fighting to bump them up?

Next up:

(07-17-2011, 05:02 PM)GaryASPG Wrote: grooveman: taking the unpopular opinion to seem like the big man while not even coming remotely close to understanding the point

Seriously? Calling out someone on wanting to be considered the "big man" when he has a perfectly legitimate claim? Most people use the term "unpopular" synonymously with "things that I am aligned against regardless of whether the majority rules in my favor". The opposing stances on the issue seem pretty damn close in number if you ask me. Not that I should have any say in ANYTHING since I'm an untalented mook of a spriter, because that should bring any and all knowledge on all things I say into question.

(07-17-2011, 05:06 PM)Chris2Balls [:B] Wrote: Right, I've made some changes, hopefully for the best.

No no no no no, YOU are running the show. I am willing to let this whole thing slide just this one time, but keep in mind that if you let something like this happen again, the whole foundation of the competition is just going to crumble to pieces tenfold of how far it's already gone with dropouts and this whole debacle. Next time I hope you can show some balls. 2balls preferred.

(07-17-2011, 06:01 PM)DJvenom Wrote: tldr; People may be experts at finishing, but the final result may not be as good as others.

If it were based on completion, someone could have made everything red and turned it in day 1

In that case let's just shoehorn Elk into Expert tier and everyone sweat a bit.

(07-17-2011, 08:09 PM)another coyote not that one Wrote: better question

why arent the tiers even


what the hell would you need it to be 11, 12, 16 for thats completely retarded

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and not balanced at all they should all be as similar as possible

---

one tier would go on longer than the others

Now this is where my knowledge on this whole issue is going to be VERY hazy, because while this whole thing went down in a matter of hours while I was off at a bar pounding back beers to soothe the ache of another hard day of work with some friends, and I have NO idea what the original tier list looked like in terms of numbers.

However, I can say that I looked through all the entries, and all I can say is this: it's a matter of skill. :l

If you shuffle anyone around from beginner, you run the risk of pitting them against much harder competition and just get them booted out quickly. Really there are very few people who can be shuffled around any more than they already have, and even if you DO shuffle some around you'll only end up with one or two switches and barely any difference unless you bump someone somewhere you've vehemently contended they don't belong.

I don't see anything wrong with having a scenario where there are more eliminations for a particular group to make sure they finish around the same time as the rest, ESPECIALLY when you consider that it's happening to the LOWEST tier, it's not like 10 experts are going to be booted the first week because of this you know. Think someone losing is unfair? Then maybe you shouldn't have joined a competition, which, by definition is "rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc." In other words, you might win, you might lose. You'll live.


I don't really have anything else to say on this issue, and I don't really expect anything for the Preliminaries to change as a result of what I've said. I just sincerely hope that you can all reflect on not just what I'VE said, but what YOU'VE said too, so that when you get butthurt because the judges accepted something that was on the road to being awesome but unfinished and ugly over something that is not only awesome, but also complete, you can remember WHY it might have gotten in the judge's heads. Then you can scratch your head and keep on wondering why this competition never gets finished.

Quote:No no no no no, YOU are running the show. I am willing to let this whole thing slide just this one time, but keep in mind that if you let something like this happen again, the whole foundation of the competition is just going to crumble to pieces tenfold of how far it's already gone with dropouts and this whole debacle. Next time I hope you can show some balls. 2balls preferred.

no you know what fuck you

TUGS is a tournament founded on lying and favoritism, he's just continuing the tradition

yeah, but here's the thing. this is the preliminary round. it isn't being graded and doesn't need to be based on effort, its just there to put people in the skill level they belong. we aren't trying to earn our way up, we're just being put into places with people of similar skill levels.

(07-17-2011, 11:33 PM)Gorsal Jr. Wrote: yeah, but here's the thing. this is the preliminary round. it isn't being graded and doesn't need to be based on effort, its just there to put people in the skill level they belong. we aren't trying to earn our way up, we're just being put into places with people of similar skill levels.

Which clearly wasn't the case this time.