I agree with Keychain. After the release of Sonic '06, most sonic fans complained about the fact that there were too many playable characters in the story line (Sonic '06 had a total of 9 playable characters in the main storyline (Sonic's story, Shadow's story and Silver's story of course).). So SEGA finally listend to our cries and tried to make "Sonic's triumphant return" by making Sonic Unleashed. They returned to their roots by making the day stages similar to the classics by adding the TRUE sense of speed, and from here on out, making Sonic the only playable character. If you've noticed, after the release of S4Ep1, Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations, Sonic has been getting better reviews than pre-Sonic Unleashed ratings. SEGA is trying to define Sonic, instead of trying to compete with Mario. I think that SEGA have finally defined who Sonic The Hedgehog is, they should keep their current style.

(04-30-2012, 05:59 AM)Iceman404 Wrote: I like how you wrongly discriminate 'old time fans'. Who said we hated any of the old characters. For all I care the new character could be a playable Amy. Whats most important is adding a completely new feel of gameplay with each one via level design with a unique ability.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles hit the nail on the cranium.

Not discriminating old-time fans as much as I'm discriminating people who are just never fucking happy with what Sega does. Even Sonic Generations had its fair share of haters because they didn't like how the 2D segments were executed. Sonic Generations was the perfect Sonic game imo because it had a little bit of everything I love from Sonic.

And it's pretty obvious that, hopefully, Sega is out of their shitty Sonic phase. All of the last games have been good. Whether you like Sonic 4 or not, it's still decent because it's not a gimmick like werehog Sonic or Sonic using a sword, and it's actually a sign of Sega trying to improve and trying to please their community.

Honestly, I can't stand any of the games that utilize the Unleashed gameplay. Not for "IT ISN'T GENESIS" but just because I don't find it very fun at all.

(04-30-2012, 08:12 AM)Keychain Wrote: Not discriminating old-time fans as much as I'm discriminating people who are just never fucking happy with what Sega does.

can you point me in the direction of one or more of these people

because i'm pretty sure you're combining group A (people who jumped on the bandwagon of hating all of the excess characters in sonic adventure, adventure 2, heroes, and 06, and wanted everything boiled down to sonic and eggman again) and group B (people who enjoyed having lots of characters to play as and were angered when unleashed dropped everything back down to sonic)

For whatever reason, nostalgia goggles are strong within the Sonic "fan-base", so they'll never be fucking happy, but will still buy all the games.

...So are the newest games merely "acceptable" or are they actually "good"?

(04-30-2012, 01:30 PM)Rλy Wrote: ...So are the newest games merely "acceptable" or are they actually "good"?

Depends who you ask. I don't like the Unleashed-styled games very much at all. Generations and Colors are worth playing if you can do so for free.

Sonic 4 Episode One I thought was fantastic, and I'm super stoked for Episode Two.

I don't have enough experience with the Sonic Storybook, Sonic Riders, or Sonic Rivals titles to tell you if they're good or not. I got pretty far in Secret Rings, though, so I must have liked that.

As Kriven said above, it depends on who you ask. For me, as much as I love Genesis style gameplay, Sonic 4 wasn't a very great experience (at least it didn't do justice to all the hype about it) and Colors and Generations were great. Actually, Generations made me get both Colors and Unleashed, and I loved them. Unleashed is not as great as the other 2, even in the normal Sonic parts, but it's decent and the world travel theme is fun. As much as I liked Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, the Unleashed-style gameplay suits the series better (at least how it is now in Generations)

(04-30-2012, 08:12 AM)Keychain Wrote:

(04-30-2012, 05:59 AM)Iceman404 Wrote: I like how you wrongly discriminate 'old time fans'. Who said we hated any of the old characters. For all I care the new character could be a playable Amy. Whats most important is adding a completely new feel of gameplay with each one via level design with a unique ability.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles hit the nail on the cranium.

Not discriminating old-time fans as much as I'm discriminating people who are just never fucking happy with what Sega does. Even Sonic Generations had its fair share of haters because they didn't like how the 2D segments were executed. Sonic Generations was the perfect Sonic game imo because it had a little bit of everything I love from Sonic.

And it's pretty obvious that, hopefully, Sega is out of their shitty Sonic phase. All of the last games have been good. Whether you like Sonic 4 or not, it's still decent because it's not a gimmick like werehog Sonic or Sonic using a sword, and it's actually a sign of Sega trying to improve and trying to please their community.

"Ohhhh they're trying so hard, we should accept any mistake they make and ass kiss every game without logical criticism like shitty gimmicks or heavy flaws!!"
"Ehh, it's less terrible than the last game I guess. We should praise it for not being as shitty!"

'imo' also tosses away any credibility in your posts.

I agree.
Sonic generations was (a lot) better, but there were still problems with it.
I'm not saying it's a bad game (because it's not) but it's not as good as it could/should be.

But wait, we have no idea what we want so let's just kiss sega's ass for releasing a product that didn't live up to the hype.

Edit: btw, "trying to please the community" =/= ignoring 90% of everything they say.
sonic retro sent them a completely disassembled, step by step guide on how to perfectly replicate the genesis physics in any game engine, and they sent it multiple times to multiple people
Guess what didnt get used

(04-30-2012, 06:36 PM)Vipershark Wrote: sonic retro sent them a completely disassembled, step by step guide on how to perfectly replicate the genesis physics in any game engine, and they sent it multiple times to multiple people
Guess what didnt get used

Sent it to them? They fucking scraped the guides all over the entire internet.
Even the Sonic Worlds engine is better than 4's.

After Taxman of Retro helped them remake Sonic CD with said physics, I really hope Sega tells DIMPS what he did right this time.

Well, I feel like Sonic Team is on the right track after Generations. The Sonic CD port was excellent and I hope Episode 2 shows me that they're understanding. Since the games are playable and not bad, I don't see why not support them now.

(04-30-2012, 03:12 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: 'imo' also tosses away any credibility in your posts.

"imo" is better than "what I say is the absolute truth"

(04-30-2012, 08:27 PM)Maidsukki Wrote: "imo" is better than "what I say is the absolute truth"

Not
really

It's the same as when teachers tell you not to use "I think" in your papers, because it's understood that what you're saying is what "you think." Speaking without littering "imo" all over the place doesn't mean that you think what you're saying is the absolute one and only truth that can never be proven wrong, but well

you ought to have some amount of confidence, credibility and basis for what you're saying beyond arbitrary opinions

I don't really know why people are so getting defensive about criticisms over these games. Maybe it's not people butthurt for no reason but hm
maybe the games just
have flaws
???

(but how dare we have opinions, only people who understand beloved sonikku may have opinions no matter how much we don't like about the games we can specifically point out) (p.s. everything people point out must just be crazy fanboy nonsense because how could anyone feel different from me about how fun a game is)

I've felt that Sonic's been pretty mediocre for a really long time now. Some of them are okay. Generations is okay, from what I've played of it, but that doesn't mean every aspect of it is good. There are things I like and don't like about it. I don't trash everything about the game for the sake of it, and I don't think as many people do as is implied. I don't know why I have to give the developers praise just for effort, that's absolutely silly. Every developer gives their effort. There's no reason for that to influence how I feel about the game. I'm not some awful sega hater, or a sonic hater, or something. They're just not that great, no matter how they've improved.

I don't see how stating something is your opinion invalidates anything you said. Saying "Sonic Generations is a perfect game" would feel very arrogant, at least to me. This isn't an essay, this is a conversation between several people.

Also I don't think it's about effort, it's more about how they're on the right track again, but that shouldn't be any reason to praise them, I agree. We should be getting the best product all the times and not some games that get better gradually. I guess support comes from one's motivation to play and buy that game, it shouldn't be universal, nor old fans should just suck it up if they're not pleased. What baffles me are fans that complain about everything on it and still buy the game, ahahaha.

sonic 06 was and will be the best sonic game ever, imo