(05-03-2012, 01:01 PM)Crappy Blue Luigi Wrote: ... who collects rings; breaks monitors to get rings, shields, etc.; can jump straight through enemies to kill them; has a bigger focus on momentum...

oh hey wait, it's not really mario at all! sonic without speed is sonic 1 minus green hill zone and star light zone.

Uhh... Actually, SEGA tried to make Sonic 1 quick paced, they just didn't EMPHISIZE on the speed. They emphisized on the platforming instead. I don't get it, it's like when I put the word "speed" and "sonic" in the same sentence, it instantly means going in excess of 400 mph. What I'm trying to say is, what's a sonic game without MOMENTUM BASED PLATFORMING.

Sonic 1 - K, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, minus a few stages and zones.

AKA: All the good ones.

(05-03-2012, 01:50 PM)BlueBlur97 Wrote:

(05-03-2012, 01:01 PM)Crappy Blue Luigi Wrote: ... who collects rings; breaks monitors to get rings, shields, etc.; can jump straight through enemies to kill them; has a bigger focus on momentum...

oh hey wait, it's not really mario at all! sonic without speed is sonic 1 minus green hill zone and star light zone.

Uhh... Actually, SEGA tried to make Sonic 1 quick paced, they just didn't EMPHISIZE on the speed. They emphisized on the platforming instead. I don't get it, it's like when I put the word "speed" and "sonic" in the same sentence, it instantly means going in excess of 400 mph. What I'm trying to say is, what's a sonic game without MOMENTUM BASED PLATFORMING.

uh, basically that's what i said, though you said it more thoroughly. sonic 1, minus green hill and star light, is heavily focused on platforming, with some really unfortunate slow platforming sections to bog everything down (marble, labyrinth). i never said speed made sonic what he is. in fact, i listed other important qualities that make up sonic, excluding speed entirely.

as for why people think of GOTTA GO FAST when you mention "sonic" and "speed" in the same phrase, it's because of games like sonic rush and sonic unleashed (daytime), where the focus--thanks to the boost--is on going as fast as possible. it's also because that's just how sonic has always been marketed.

people expect speed from sonic. his character is that he's fast. where else do you go with that.

fff, long tangents.

Bah Sonic went as fast as you wanted him to go back in the good days. Nowadays, in 3D, they force you to go fast. You can't even stop to look for secrets.

Nope, GOTTA GO FAST!

if you really think that, then you should play sonic generations. the level design for the modern sonic acts is often very clever, with hidden shortcuts and side paths that most people wouldn't even bother to try.

(05-04-2012, 12:11 AM)Crappy Blue Luigi Wrote: if you really think that, then you should play sonic generations. the level design for the modern sonic acts is often very clever, with hidden shortcuts and side paths that most people wouldn't even bother to try.

Probably because they can hardly see them as the they whir by at a million miles an hour.

But I guess I'm the only one who likes to register what's actually happening on-screen, idunno.

I kinda felt the same way about modern Sonic, I liked the exploring in the Adventure series. But the level design in Generations (and Colors. Actually, maybe Colors' level design is better) is indeed very clever, even if you can't catch all of it at once, you can go back and see all the details and alternative paths that are there (Especially if you want to get every Red Coin)

The branching paths were like "Jump NOW to go alternate route!" "Ooops! You weren't quick enough too late!"

That's not exploration. The levels are designed so you can't backtrack or stop or try to figure things out. Speed was an option, now it's mandatory.

The game feels like an on-rails platformer with some detours.

Instead of a speedy platformer in a labyrinthine world.

http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/Genesis/SonicThe...1-Past.png

What I hated about Generations is the locked camera. I wish the camera was like Unleashed, so you could at least backtrack a bit and enjoy some of the level design.

Wow, um...Tidal Tempest is not really a good example of a good old-school Sonic stage. As much as I love the music on that, it was really boring to have to stop every few seconds because there was a pipe or something and the underwater parts aren't good, this and Wacky Workbench are probably the worst stages on Sonic CD. Also, pretty much every Genesis-era Sonic stages are anti-backtracking (Tidal Tempest is actually one of the best example of this), Sonic was always meant to go really fast and never backtrack, which was kinda what people complained about Adventure and Adventure 2, which didn't give that "speed" feel.

Now, I prefer the Adventure style gameplay over this new one (I just wish it wasn't so broken), but it's probably the best representation of what Sonic is really meant to be in the first place. Really. Freaking. Fast. Also, Generations and Colors are very...uh..."controllable", what really is a on-rails platformer is the Magic Book series (Secret Rings, Black Knight). The fact that the alternate routes were hard to find and go on a first try is a good thing, since it's the whole point of it being "alternative".

(05-04-2012, 12:39 AM)Koopaul Wrote: The branching paths were like "Jump NOW to go alternate route!" "Ooops! You weren't quick enough too late!"

That's not exploration. The levels are designed so you can't backtrack or stop or try to figure things out. Speed was an option, now it's mandatory.

The game feels like an on-rails platformer with some detours.

Instead of a speedy platformer in a labyrinthine world.

http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/Genesis/SonicThe...1-Past.png

i though the challenges in SA2 granted you plenty of branching paths and focused platforming

Sonic CD always seems too slow-paced to me. It's goes heavy on the exploration instead of the speed.

THANK YOU!

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THANK YOU!

Wow, this has really gotten of-topic right here. So I'll guess I'll put it back to the right rails again.
Sonic 4 Episode 1 did NOT use the Hedgehog at all. The Wii cant support the Hedgehog engine and Sonic 4 was ported to the Wii as exactly the same game excluding the music because those were midi's in the Wii version to preserve space.

Another little fun fact is that Sonic 1 was first a very fast game. They had to slow down the game because some people got motion sickness. I guess they slowed it down a bit to much because if you compare the average gameplay speed of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, you'll notice a big difference (Spindash FTW!).

Sonic Unleashed/Generations is all about memorizing and timing. I've lost over 100 lives to just get a red ring because it was one of those moments where you had 0.5 of a second to do an action or else you'll miss it. That is something I completely hate and can get very frustrating.

Sonic Adventure 1/2 had a gameplay which had speed, platforming, shortcuts that you actually have time to react to and eyecandy that you could actually see instead of blasting through because you "GOTTA GO FAST" to get a fucking S rank. The time based ranking system in Generations in ridiculous. Not only is it far to fucking easy to get an S rank or A rank, it totally breaks the feel of actually playing a level instead of holding X and press A to get to the finish as fast as possible.

Back to Sonic 4 EP 2, I thinks this is going to be a fucking good game, because I already liked Ep 1 although Lost Labyrinth zone was utter shit and its puzzles were very frustrating. I liked the music for the game especially Mad Gear Zone Act 1. Damn hot! But there were a few songs that were very annoying like the boss theme which is heard during THE ENTIRE LAST STAGE!.

And damn this was my longest post ever.

Let the discussion move on.

^Is English your first language


Anyways, the best example of old Sonic level design is probably both acts of Launch Base Zone.