:l
I'm not "putting my own spin on it" I'm saying what I got out of the article.
I''m going to bow out of this, as I'm not really in a clear stated of mind right now, and I'll probably just escalate the argument into something huge which I don't want to happen.

It's really great how videogames are trying so hard to appeal to the lowest common denominator now.
This is just stupid.

I'm not mad at you, flannel, 'cause I know you're just trying to be fair about it and all, but that's all the more reason I want you to understand why this is so wrong. It's real easy to interpret their words in more positive ways but

no, they actually just said really terrible things. Lots and lots of terrible things, at that, so it's kind of impossible to shrug every instance off as "you just read it wrong"

this thread outlived its purpose anyway. the E3 is dead and we can all get back
into out lives.

Good point, we don't want this to be the next topic that causes the next calamity.

EDIT: Don't think I want to close this because I support Gwen and don't want him to be told he's wrong... Sorry dude but this time I actually disagree with you. This is the wrong way to show a strong female lead.

From now on, this is the thread for general gaming discussiona dns tuff that doesnt require a thread on its own. same rules as always.

Thread show be up until next year's E3.

From the trailer alone there seems to be a lot of woman beating going on and woman in pain and being useless etc. But well, I think because there trying to show that Lara as a person, not a machine, they're pushing the whole vulnerable thing a bit much now but I'm guessing in the end game it'll be a much more rounded character then what we're currently seeing. If not well... damn.

As it's a woman it's of course always going to cause more drama, as female lead roles are always hard to get right and seem to cause offence. The only strong but still vulnerable female character I can think of is really The Boss from MGS3. Samus isn't really much of an actual character as she is more created by the person playing the game (which is good in it's own way) than anything presented by the game. Other M really dropped the ball on moving her on from that state, with Fusion and the Prime games showing a more of a woman made strong by crisis.

A woman being raped doesn't show a weak woman either - it shows the evil of man. I'm not really sure how I feel about rape being in a game as it really is an evil act. I guess protecting someone from rape will make me more emotional with the game and take it more seriously, but using something like rape might be taking a few steps too far to when it comes to getting players emotionally engaged.

Then again Catherine was based all around the concept of cheating (no spoilers, I'm only on the 6th stage) and that has handled the subject expertly so far. If we're going to see some kind of terrible off camera rape scene when we fail then it won't add anything to the game, however if it's done as more of a threat, a possibility, but not an actual event then it could end adding a strong fear element.

I'd really like to see Metal Gear remade, as here we have a Snake who's unsure of himself, and thus turning to help. It would be a chance to show a vulnerable male character (though Nathan Drake, though very text book, is still a good well-balanced character).

(06-11-2012, 11:09 PM)Vipershark Wrote: It's really great how videogames are trying so hard to appeal to the lowest common denominator now.
This is just stupid.

what exactly are you implying here

It's... kind of in the post there

The AAA blockbuster game industry is pretty awful!!!

Blood, tits and explosions have always sold. It's nothing new.

I know, but

It's kind of terrible that such low quality games (in terms of content, I mean) are the main representatives for the entire industry
it just makes all the legitimately good games look bad

(06-12-2012, 02:11 PM)Vipershark Wrote: I know, but

It's kind of terrible that such low quality games (in terms of content, I mean) are the main representatives for the entire industry
it just makes all the legitimately good games look bad

The reason that they're low quality is because they're so common. The reason that they're so common is because they're "representatives of the entire industry" (i.e. there are so many of them because they sell). Thus they're bad because they're popular, not popular because they're bad. Inversely, "legitimately good" games are good because they're unique and not repetitively copied.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I highly prefer innovative indie games to FPS clones, but I'm just saying that what you said isn't really anybody's fault.

The point of gaming is entertainment. At the end of the day that's all games are (yes I just kicked the whole games are art thing in the balls - trust me it deserves it, damn meddling thing...)
I seriously wouldn't worry too much about it. A game can still be good while being stupidly violent and having shameless big bouncy tits (with six-axis control, which you can use one handed). Violence is easy to market so at times it may feel like the majority of the world are buying into it but remember...

Mario has been around over 20 years, his games always sell and it's about a guy jumping on monster mushrooms. Millions may buy Call of Duty but millions still buy games like Journey and Mario and everything else. Yeah I like God of War, we've been through all that, but I don't think it's the face of gaming by any means.

You have your people who think Wii Sports is all that there is, those who don't see a game as a game unless you die in one hit and everything between. Some one out there will always be making something odd, weird and magical and what the rest of the world thinks about it won't make it any less enjoyable.



Also... why was Project P-100 not in the Nintendo conference?

When sexism is considered normal you'd think that'd be a red flag, not an "oh well"

but lol so long as I can have my titties!

You guys seem to be missing the point in the article where it doesn't say anywhere at all that you'll want to protect croft as a character from bad things happening.

They said you'll want to protect croft as a female character

specifically because she's female

It's right there, in black and white. You won't project yourself into her. Because she's a female protagonist. You'll want to protect her. As a female protagonist. You'll have to be her helper. You'll have to hold her hand. You'll root for her, as a female. Because you wouldn't root for males, because you'd be the big strong male yourself. But you'll have to help her, since you won't feel like the female. Because she can't do it on her own. She needs big strong male gamers to do it for her.

Tell me how you're supposed to respect that type of hero. She's going to struggle. She's young and vulnerable. But she doesn't need your omniscient hands to get through her own story. It's her story, not yours.

I have never in my life wanted to protect a playable character. I've wanted to protect NPCs that, y'know, you're meant to protect. But I don't play mario and want to "protect" him from the lava. I don't play ezio and want to "protect" him from his pursuers. I don't even want to protect link, who's a kid, for goodness sake. I want them to overcome their obstacles. Because, y'know, in their world, that's what they do.

What's the point of their actions if they need some player to help them do it? The characters don't appreciate your hard work, because it's not really you, but the character. You're entirely uninvolved in their story. You either feel like you're them, or you're urging them to move forward. You're not protecting them, because they're capable. You're the one who might not be, if you can't win.

In canon, they're capable whether you are or not. Whether she's vulnerable or not, she's capable. You don't want anything bad to happen to her, you'll feel sympathy, sure. But will you want to white knight her? What the heck is that? Don't insert yourself into the game like some god figure, no.

I'm not even going to touch the rape issue right now, that's a whole 'nother monster.

@ goemar:
I'm not saying to stop making violent games, I'm saying to stop making Call of Honor: God of Uncharted Brofist Warfare: Michael Bay Director's Cut - FUCK Edition (with added explosion DLC)

Every game at E3 was a clone of a clone of a clone of a port of a clone of a clone of a game that was original more than like half a decade ago.
Aside from Ubisoft (and nintendo, though their selection was boring for a different reason), every single game was an fps or 3ps (or madden) which was a pissing contest to see who could stuff the word fuck in their trailer the most times.

I don't have a problem with vulgarity or violence or whatever, but they're taking it to ridiculous levels.
This has been going on for years, but this year was by far the worst.