The biggest problem I have with the past few Mario games (NSMBWii, NSMB2, SM3DL, a few others) is that they feel... I don't know, they just feel empty. It just feels like the development team were sitting there miserably coding away instead of actually having fun creating the game, and that lack of passion comes through in the final product. And that's what ruins it for me.

I agree that the NSMB-series have little challenge, but I've downloaded the Nerve-Wrack Pack for NSMB2. That pack is close to Lost Levels difficult!

The reason Nintendo is too afraid to add challenge is that they want 5 year olds to be able to clear it. Thank goodness for DLC. Like the e-Reader levels (sadly not released in Europe ), these levels don't play a part in the so-called story, so they are able to crank up the heat. Sad though that of the 3 DLC packs, only the Nerve-Wrack Pack is spicy hot.

To me, New Super Mario Bros. 2 is less innovative as it is more something to experiment on. Coin Rush, DLC, records, emphasis on coin collecting. These are things that also appear in U (DLC not confirmed, but it's likely). That probably had something to do with the lack of attention into making it truly 'New'.

I love the series. I'm looking forward to NSMB. U and am hoping for more awesome (as in better, not more plentiful) DLC for 2 end of the month. Secretly hoping for a Retro Pack and a Pack that introduces a new item, like the Feather in SMA4MB3.

NSMB is what made me become more of a Sony person. It was the start of Mario's platforming stagnation and the final nail in the coffin for me along with Nintendo's refusal to advance their series (for example voice acting in Zelda games - Link can still be silent but come on, everyone else can talk, it's just stupid now).

In regards to the first post here though... man, really you're complaining about the plot? I don't care about the plot - just make the games actually "new"

It's like we had Yoshi's Island and then... NSMB. And that was fine as a one off throwback (well it wasn't, it was a back of crap but still) but now it's just a case of how many times they can pump out the same game. Mario games we're never easy, why they've suddenly became Nintendo's kiddy lift into the magic world of gaming I don't know - but if they want to do that with Mario then include a hard mode or something, anything - just make them relevant to people over the age of 7 again.

I want to play with you Mario, but your just no fun anymore.

I'll chime in and say that I've enjoyed NSMB. It's a simple game that I played at small intervals, and personally I thought some of the aspects were better than SMW's (it didn't age well imo), not to say it really gave me trouble in some parts, just like any other game. I don't think I'm much of a gamer though so I'll limit myself here.

As for the style stagnation, I agree. Some new stuff could be added (it doesn't even need to be functional; just a graphic/style rehash will do) to give it a breath of fresh air.

^ Pretty much this (I was even playing it with my cousin and we still had some trouble). And I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't think about plot that much. I mean, that's not what we really play Mario games for. Would you play it if it had a brilliant new plot but crappy gameplay? Because it kinda sounds you would (I actually think it'd be neat if Tatanga made a return, so I do think about it a little but I don't let it hinder my experience of playing the actual game). I mean sure Peach getting kidnapped gets rather tiring and a slightly different story is always nice I agree, but again that's not one of the things that Mario games are focused on so you shouldn't really expect anything too extravagant except from the RPG games.

(I liked Sunshine's story myself, but TBH the whole framing deal gets tiring too)

Technically, Bowser doesn't kidnap Peach in U, but rather takes over her castle and imprisons everyone in it while the Mario Bros. get kicked out.
Come to think of it, that's close to what happened in Paper Mario.
Not much of a change in plot, but a change nonetheless.

Personally the only Mario games I play for the story (or care about the story at all) are the M&L RPG games. That's because they are, well, RPGs, and thus the story is a big part of the game.

All other Mario games I've played I have played solely for the gameplay. I don't really play many Mario games too (haven't played Sunshine or either Galaxy yet) and not as often, so I don't really notice the repetition as much. The most recent platformer I played was NSMB, but since I hadn't played a Mario platformer since Super Mario Advance 2, it had a lot of new aspects (such as the Mega or Mini mushrooms) and was really fun for me.

In any case, I don't worry about story in platformer Mario games. The story is just there to justify Mario's presence and actions.

(10-04-2012, 09:39 AM)NICKtendo DS Wrote: Technically, Bowser doesn't kidnap Peach in U, but rather takes over her castle and imprisons everyone in it while the Mario Bros. get kicked out.
Come to think of it, that's close to what happened in Paper Mario.
Not much of a change in plot, but a change nonetheless.

And Mario 64


Edit: While I'm here, I always thought the file select screen from Sunshine would have made a decent Mario platformer :p

Far as the whole "Oh hey Peach got kidnapped by Bowser again now Mario has to save her" bullshit plot goes: Despite how it's been used repeatedly for the past several years in each platformer leaves open some room for innovation.

"But there is no innovation! the fuck are you..."

No shut up. There has been some innovation with the Mario series for the past few games (aside from NSMB, which is just a huge re-hash altogether at this point). Look at the 3-D mario games. It's already been said but lets get real that's the only innovation mario has gotten over the past few years. Hell even SM3DL had innovation in it because the game play was a combination of both 3D and 2D used to utilize the gimmick of the 3DS. Which you have to admit gave a new twist of gameplay for any Mario game.

Now here's where things start to feel empty. There hasn't been any further development from what the characters can do in the Mario games. What can a plumber do to explore the world filled with pipes? what can he use to get past obstacles that obstruct his path? why hasn't he been given a plunger yet? Miyamoto has disregarded going any further than he already has with other things aside from gameplay because he's too afraid to gamble with an already popular franchise that he is aware is dying. He knows his games haven't been selling as much. But he just doesn't want to take the risk anymore. My suggestion is to honestly let someone else who has been working on Mario long enough to start taking some direction with the Mario series because it isn't going any where better with what Miyamoto is doing right now.

(10-04-2012, 08:15 AM)Crappy Green Gors Wrote: I'll chime in and say that I've enjoyed NSMB. It's a simple game that I played at small intervals, and personally I thought some of the aspects were better than SMW's (it didn't age well imo), not to say it really gave me trouble in some parts, just like any other game. I don't think I'm much of a gamer though so I'll limit myself here.

Well, to be fair I actually did like the DS NSMB; but that's when "New" Super Mario Bros. was... well, new.

I know it's called New Super Mario Bros., but when we talk about the series getting 'old', can we leave the name out of this?
I know it is getting stale and rehash and bladibla, but if there is something that irritates me it's that a game in the series is supposed to be brand new because the title said so. No. It's supposed to be new to keep the series (which includes the classics) fresh. It's just sad Nintendo is taking baby-steps at the moment.

Quote:I know it's called New Super Mario Bros., but when we talk about the series getting 'old', can we leave the name out of this?
I know it is getting stale and rehash and bladibla, but if there is something that irritates me it's that a game in the series is supposed to be brand new because the title said so. No. It's supposed to be new to keep the series (which includes the classics) fresh. It's just sad Nintendo is taking baby-steps at the moment.

Im pretty sure it was called NEW because there was already a super mario bros... this one is just the revamped version, so inatead of calling it Super Mario Bros Revamped, they called it New SMB....

It was called New, because it was literally a new Super Mario Bros. game since World. Calling it Super Mario Bros. 4 wouldn't be correct as that is Super Mario World and calling it 5 would confuse the non-Japanese.
Because New Super Mario Bros. was a success, the name stuck. The reason the sequels are called New is because their prequel was. The same story goes for the word Super in the 4 (5 if counting SMB2USA) original SMB games.
Ironically, because of the word New in the titles, people know to expect something New Super Mario Bros.-like.

I think a huge part of the people wanting "challenging stages" are bound to nostalgia. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that SMB3 or SMW are that challenging nowadays. Maybe they're harder than NSMB, but not by much, really. Except Star World, that's good difficulty and the NSMB series' Star World isn't as difficult, I agree. I get people wanting innovation like the other ones (raccoon tail power up, yoshi, cape. Even though the ice flower, penguin suit and blue shell were kinda cool, not the propeler though, and fuck the golden flower) but I still stand that they didn't innovate that much besides graphics (different systems) and level design on earlier titles. I agree that NSMB series rehashing the same 8 world concepts (plains, desert, ice, beach, etc) is terrible, but maybe if they change that, people will complain less? Even though NSMBU has a desert world as the second one AGAIN, people have said that they're pretty diverse this time (and somewhat food themed, like kirby).

What I find quite irritating, is that people used to complain that there were no new Mario platformers since World. Then NSMB comes around and everyone loves it. Now apparently everyone hates the DS one too for some reason. Come on. The Wii one wasn't even that bad, first Mario title with 4 player multiplayer, it is fun. They may be bland and that can be improved, I agree, but they're not horrible (well...except NSMB2, which is really really lazy. But the DLCs were kinda fun. The nerve wrack pack wasn't that hard, but at least it was something)., I don't get all this hate and "Nintendo is dead/over to me" talk. It just seems that people are never pleased ever.

I agree completely. Mario games may have been hard once upon a time, but then we got good at video games so everyone's nostalgia about challenging Mario games is likely to not stand up nowadays. The Lost Levels doesn't really count, because it's literally a stagnant game and the "challenge" is just really bad level design. When I was a kid I was never able to beat Super Mario World past Vanilla Caverns (or whatever it was called).

Another thing may just be that being able to save your game lets you start from World 2468273-4872 whenever you want, so that definitely cuts the "challenge" since you don't have to get through all those first levels again, and you have more time to practice the later ones whenever you want.

Mario games need to be accessible to everyone - the difficulty of them, I'd say, hasn't changed much, just the skill of the players. If I was five years old again New Super Mario Bros. Wii would probably be a challenging game. That's not to say that they shouldn't be challenging in later stages of the game, which they are (excepting the portable New Super Mario Bros. games, which seem to let you walk through them in your sleep). The early levels will always be easy and the later levels will only get easier the more Mario games you play.