Okay, I've heard about what happened last night from Kojjiro and for the past hour or so I've been talking with Vipershark about it.

For a quick re-cap on what did happen last night is that I'm guessing that SupaBuddie's habits of using emotions in every single post of his got to vipershark and he asked him to stop. Everyone who saw the post after that didn't agree with them and it wasn't just kojirro ether. Apparently afterwards there were a couple of users after that who came and started shitposting or whatever. And several users, including Kojjiro got banned.

Even though shit posting is against the rules and everything and from what I've been hearing it was about the case of chronic shit posting over the years, there were a lot of fuck ups that lead to the bans in the first place which I honestly feel that warrants at least one more chance for Kojirro and him.

First of all about the users that were involved in the recent bannings.
There's been a massive accusation with alternate accounts regarding the inciedent. Apparently Dadnier was shit posting as well, but he never really made an alternate account. Arkenia/Corn Dogs was lurking and some how he got banned so I don't know how he got involved in the situation to begin with if that was the case. Apparently he was corn dogs at the beginning of the whole spam fest and he got banned. Apparently Kojjiro also was accused of having an alternate account at the time of the situation, but from he said that wasn't true. Also a new user also got banned at the time of the situation out of a misjudgement (which was later corrected when I told Viper this)

Another user that was involved in this was apparently Gordon, he was the only one to actually make an alternate account and that was all. He's really the only one who would have gotten a permaban in this case.

While I get the fact that these guys did shit post and of course that were supposedly banned for over several years of shit posting, there was a fuck up in at least accusing people of having alternate accounts. That's enough for me to say that this ban wasn't warranted. That said I feel that these guys (Except Gordon) should at least have a lighter punishment just because of that, if not unbanned anyways.

I think it at least warrants some discussion because to be honest, I think the only way it's only going to be resolved is if at least we all discuss why the hell everyone deserved permabans in the first place. I also think Kojirro should at least have his thoughts and opinions in this.

I'm just going to dump the PMs here because I don't feel like typing this all out again.

Vipershark Wrote:

Artherb Wrote:

Vipershark Wrote:

Artherb Wrote:

Vipershark Wrote:A lot of what happened yesterday was regrettably deleted (I got them to stop deleting at the end of it) and most of what wasn't deleted was moved to the archives so you can check there.

Basically I made a post to supabuddie asking him not to use so many emoticons, and for some reason kojjiro took this as a sign that I was going to ban supabuddie or something???

Anyway long story short kojjiro called in his friends and arkinea and algony and dadnier made alts and started shitposting all over the forum, so they were banned.

As far as kojjiro, the staff team as a whole decided that enough was enough and that we're tired of dealing with his shit, so we did what we had to do.
Then he made an alt so we banned that too.

So let me get this clear.

Basically you asked a supabuddie not to use so many emotions (Which didn't seem like much but IDK how often he uses them) and everyone disagree that there was a reason to give him that much of a verbal warning. Before I go on I kind of crossed checked the rules and I want to point out there isn't really a rule on excessive emotion use and the post had some content that contributed.

Sam/Korijjo pointed this out kind of in a passive-agressive sarcastic manner if that's the right way to describe it and eventually he got Dr. Slouch and Amazon on here to shit post. Sure I get where that kind of crosses the line and I can see why there may have been a reason for a ban there, but the original reason wasn't really anything that bad.

I never even referenced the rules or anything. I was just like "hey dude can you not use so many emoticons please thanks" and then kojjiro somehow took this as me sayying that nobody should ever use emoticons ever or something.

(If I hadn't been the one to tell him that, somebody else would have. It happens with literally ever user that uses weird text formatting or emoticons or whatever.)
I never even gave him a "warning", not even in the verbal sense. It was just "hey dude can you cut that out"

The "original reason" for banning kojjiro wasn't in response to his reply to me. It was the result of months, even years of us putting up with his bullshit and we're done with it. The straw that broke the camel's back, if you will.

Alright, Mind actually elaborating on what exactly kojjiro has been doing in specific to get himself banned aside from generalizing the fact that he's been doing shit. Don't get me wrong here or anything but that isn't really enough for me to go on to say "oh okay".

also: just talking with sam right now and he told me exactly this:

Quote:does he know that arkinea, dadnier and ark didn't make any alts
ark was Corn Dogs from the beginning and algony didn't make an alt either
and neither did Dadnier lmao

the only person who made an alt
was gordon

also they banned an unknown new user who we had no association with for being an alt

immediately as she posted an introduction lmao

also i didnt get anyone to start posting on the forum

i posted what i did about vipershark, came back an hour later and apparently arkinea had been lurking

ark got banned for calling out gors on warning sam for "inappropriate language" when gors literally has the word "cock" in his title and swore twice in the same thread

So there's really two sides on the same story here and to be kind of honest, none of them are matching up to what you're saying. Not trying to take sides here but to be honest I don't see how alot of the bans have exactly been that warranted. (Sam's maybe but again, I'm not sure about what is going on here)

The a big bear member is unbanned.

As far as elaborating on Kojjiro, yeah, I do mind.
Tell him to fuck off.
Thanks.

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Vipershark Wrote:As far as elaborating on Kojjiro, yeah, I do mind.
Tell him to fuck off.
Thanks.

Not to be a dick or anything but that's not the mature way to go about it.

I mean, just telling someone to fuck off about is kind of childish and it's only going to make the situation worse than it already is so why on earth do that? wouldn't you rather just resolve it from here than make it far more shittier than it is now?

So let me ask again to at least have you elaborate on what the hell Kojjiro has been doing to piss you off. I'm all ears.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with kojjiro over his fucking ban through you. I'm done talking to him.

The point is, kojjiro (and the others who were banned) are chronic shitposters who contribute absolutely nothing of value to the forum anymore. Every time they come here to post there's always some huge shitstorm as a result and I (and the rest of the staff team) am tired of dealing with their garbage.
It's that simple.

So basically you're just going to blame the spam fest that was supposedly a "shit storm" in your opinion and somehow.

I'm sorry but I don't see how it's a shit storm. If this was then let me remind you of the male gaze thread, that was a shit storm.

the shit posts they made didn't start a remote shit storm, that was just spam in general.

If you're just going to blame something this small on them then you're just acting high and mighty, you're being a mod. That's just my thoughts on this.

I wouldn't necessarily call this particular incident a shitstorm, no.
But shitposting is still against the rules either way.

If you're saying that it wasn't a shit storm why in the hell would you say it was one to begin with? think about what you just said right here.

I'm not even acting high and mighty here. The point is, they make no attempt to integrate into the community. All they ever do is come here and insult people and talk about how bad it is here. Why should we humor them anymore?

First of all, you're still defending yourself aggressively, and now you're acting like you haven't done anything, that's the high and mighty attitude right there. And honestly, show me all the threads where he made insults and how bad it is here, every one of them, with the actual posts if this is what you're honestly saying.

As I said, it wasn't in response to this particular incident. (Well the alts were, but that's beside the point.) It was a result of years of dealing with this shit and we're done with it.

Again, point out every post with the above things.

And even if kojjiro still wants to talk about how that's unjustified or whatever, he made an alt himself, the punishment for which is a permaban. He's not coming back. End of story.
Suigin made alts
audio made alts
fuck you even still allow shitposters like classiczeldaEXPERT to come on here and it's surprising he still hasn't been banned.
Even if they changed or don't come here often, you're still allowing those members in specific to come on here despite the rules that you mentioned here. Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

I think it's about time you stop getting your panties bunched over nothing. at all.

I never called it a shitstorm. Point out where I did.

I'm not combing through years' worth of points and pointing out every incident and I'm not humoring this bullshit any longer.

Aud and alts got banned.
Suigin's alts got banned but suigin himself changed and follows the rules so he's accepted.
ZeldaClassicEXPERT [edited because I don't want to air his business] He's harmless anyway and never tries to attack anyone. We just let him do his thing because it doesn't affect anyone at all.

If you have a problem with the way that I or other staff members handled things, please feel free to contact Dazz or Gorsal about it and tell them just how bad of a job I do.

Sure Zee, since after all you're the one abusing your powers just like he did back in 2008.

Point out specifically where I abused my powers, please.

-Apparently banning people for shit posting (which should only be a warn anyways.)
-Falsely accusing users for making alts when they never did
-banning some one that had no involvement in (Even if you unbanned that person, really, that's just stupid to begin with)

Hell if you've actually read some of the stuff that I quoted from Sam in specific then you probably have already seen his side of the argument.

Shitposting is against the rules, dude. Rule #1, the very first rule. Don't be dumb.
Shitposting falls into that.
I wouldn't have cared if it had stayed in the lounge. (It didn't.)

Yeah, so we accused the wrong person for alting, okay. Either way, the only people we accused were... still shitposting. They'd have been banned either way. (Fun fact: kojjiro repeatedly claimed gordon wasn't in on it then earlier today cleaimed that he was the one making alts. Huh.)

As for a big bear, that person registered and began posting at the same time as the alts with the same stupid posting style with their very first post being a stupid post in the lounge. They've since been unbanned and yeah, that was an error in judgement. I'll admit that. But you can't deny that the timing of their registration and the content of their post and signature didn't scream alt.

And here's the kicker.
Guess what? I was the one trying to -protect- Kojjiro.
Ask literally anyone on the staff team and they'll back up that claim. I might not like the guy but that doesn't mean I can't make an objective decision about whether or not we should ban him.
The consensus was to just ban him on the spot but I convinced everyone to hold off and wait for approval from Dazz before doing anything because I didn't want there to be an unfair ban. Why do you think that there was a several-hour gap between the others being banned and then Kojjiro being banned? It's not like I was like "ahurrhurr nobody will notice if i do this late at night hee hee hee"
I might have been the one to pull the trigger, but the decision was based on a unanimous vote from the entirety of the staff team.

In other words, if you have an issue with one of us, take it up with all of us.
Why I'm being specifically targeted for this is beyond me but I'm not the enemy here.

I'm not saying that shit posting is allowed.
All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be that bad to warrant that big of a ban, mute maybe but not a ban.

Also want to point out that despite the fact you wanted to try and protect kojjiro you still were a part of the unanimous vote. Even if you didn't want an unfair ban there still was one regardless because of the reasons I have stated.

You're missing the point.
This isn't about one case of shitposting. It's about chronic shitposting over a period of years. This is ending the streak. Had this been anyone else (who isn't a chronic shitposter), you even, then yes, you'd be completely right. I'd agree with you 100%. But that isn't the case here.

You might disagree with the ban(s) but it was done for the good of the site as a whole. The parties in question can be butthurt all they want. They're not coming back.

As I said, if you have an issue with the way things are run, take it up with Dazz or Gorsal.

well in any case I'm making a thread about it in the site discussion because there still needs to be some discussion about this. Okay, maybe there was shit posting and it was chronic, but there were so many fuck ups to the decision that lead to the ban before hand that I think warrants at least one last chance.

This was, like, his 50th last chance.
How many more are we supposed to give him before it's finally enough?

Look, all I'm saying is that he should at least have one more because there were fuck-ups involved.

Who knows, He might change, he might not. But in this case I think there still needs to be a discussion about it. I'd like him to at least get involved in the discussion personally because I think there needs to be both sides to at least resolve this in some reasonable manner.

After years of this shit being pulled, at what point do we stop saying "oh, maybe he'll be different next time" because we've been saying that for years and he's never different.

The only legitimate fuck-up was the banning of a big bear which I take responsibility for but you can't deny that my reasoning behind that was sound.
For all either of us know, that could have been one of them behind a proxy but that's not the point.
The user has been unbanned and that has absolutely nothing to do with kojjiro's ban.

If the school bully kicks your face in once a day, you don't go thinking he won't kick your face in tomorrow and give him another chance. He's showed time and time again that he has no intention of stopping and enough is enough. The school bully got his own face kicked in and now the conflict is over.

No more "one more chances".

Forgetting the whole accusation of alternate accounts we just discussed.

That's enough to at least call BS about it.

All I'm saying is, there needs to be at least some civil discussion about it.

I already answered that?
Whether or not we accused the wrong person of alting is irrelevant in this case since the people we accused were banned for shitposting anyway. Had there been a separate unrelated user banned then you'd have a point, but there wasn't. And either way, that would have absolutely nothing to do with kojjiro's ban.
Aside from a big bear which we've discussed, all of the other bans were legitimate.

If you don't accept the reasoning for kojjiro's original ban, he still bandodged and made an alt himself.

I asked him to make the alt just now because I felt that he should have an opinion in the discussion I'd like to make. Because honestly the whole thing was bullshit from the beginning and if anything there should at least be some negotiations. I'll take some responsibility for that as well.

Also the thing about the whole alt account thing, it's still relevant. Even if there was shit posting involved there was still an accusation of alternate accounts being made on several accounts. Even if there was supposed to be a permaban originally it should at least be lightened up to a ban that's at least a month or two. That's all I'm trying to say.

I still want to go through with this discussion with the rest of the staff team at least.

I'm not stopping you.

And with that, allow me to leave Kojjiro's full ban reason here. The text box was too small to hold all of this, so I might as well put it where I know he'll see it.

Quote:You want a legitimate reason? Fine. You've done absolutely nothing but be a thorn in tSR's collective side for months on end; years, even. You contribute nothing of value to the site anymore and frankly, everyone on the staff team is tired of dealing with your shit. After coming to a unanimous decision, we're rinsing our hands of you and your constant bullshit and it's just time for you to go. No more warning you and letting you get away with things anymore. It's over. Take your shit elsewhere, because it's not welcome here anymore.

Just something that Kojjiro brought up to me.

He does offer valid criticism in the spriting and pixel art discussion, despite the fact you've been saying that he doesn't offer anything to the community at all. He's also started up several spriting competitions on occasion and started Jojo's bizzare adventure and GROW threads. I don't see how that isn't contributing really.

He might make a few posts that aren't insulting in nature but the bad really outweighs the good.

I'm not unbanning him unless Dazz says otherwise, so your best option is to wait for him to get online and see what he says.

worth noting that gordon got banned before he even made an alt, he literally only posted a gif, in the spam forum and was immediately banned for it


speaking of which, when did shitposting in the spam forum become a bannable offensive you guys? because pretty much everyone banned was only "shitposting" in the spam forum, especially devin and algony. the worst thing that sam and ark did was call you out on being incredibly rude to someone over something as insignificant as using a built-in board function. if you don't want people using smileys, turn the fuckers off. seriously



oh hey while we're on the subject of "calling staff bullshit," i just figured i'd point out that i still haven't been apologized to for having my career, qualifications and overall talents called into question and basically insulted over offering a single, easily ignorable, easily dismissable, friendly piece of potential advice, to the point where i was literally told that i am "not qualified" to offer critique/advice because of internal problems developing my own game. cshad wasn't insulting to me at all (wow! i doubt it was that hard for him to do either! seriously! you can disagree and rebutt without being assholes.) and previous apologized to me via pm, which i accepted, but then also decided to thank all of the posts insulting me. it wasn't just simple stuff, you guys were actually being personally insulting and that's not fucking cool no matter what you think of me.


and please don't dismiss me just because i decided to come back to defend my friends being mistreated (because it actually has nothing to do with "skypecrew" because these people are my friends), thank you very much and have a good day

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quite frankly your reasons only sound like "i personally don't like them so i'm not going to unban them" which is very unprofessional of a staff member to do

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also why did sam get warned for using the word "fuck" a few times when gors literally has the word "cock" in his user title and also used the word "fuck" in the same thread? i'm not trying to be insulting, i'm legitimately curious what the reasoning behind that was

(11-15-2012, 07:56 PM)Alpha Six Wrote: oh hey while we're on the subject of "calling staff bullshit," i just figured i'd point out that i still haven't been apologized to for having my career, qualifications and overall talents called into question and basically insulted over offering a single, easily ignorable, easily dismissable, friendly piece of potential advice, to the point where i was literally told that i am "not qualified" to offer critique/advice because of internal problems developing my own game.

The TSR moderation team never claimed you're a sub-par developer, that was my own statement. I wasn't even a moderator at the time so please keep any personal vendettas out of this.

(11-15-2012, 08:10 PM)Sengir Wrote:

(11-15-2012, 07:56 PM)Alpha Six Wrote: oh hey while we're on the subject of "calling staff bullshit," i just figured i'd point out that i still haven't been apologized to for having my career, qualifications and overall talents called into question and basically insulted over offering a single, easily ignorable, easily dismissable, friendly piece of potential advice, to the point where i was literally told that i am "not qualified" to offer critique/advice because of internal problems developing my own game.

The TSR moderation team never claimed you're a sub-par developer, that was my own statement. I wasn't even a moderator at the time so please keep any personal vendettas out of this.

so just because you weren't part of the mod team, that justifies personally insulting me? also worth noting that a good half, if not more, of the moderators and administrators liked and endorsed the insults, rather than do the responsible thing and remove them.

also, vipershark literally said "it'd be nice if the guy who hasn't released a game wouldn't come in and tell us what to do" which is still insulting and calling my career into question. pushed even further into it when gillian called him out on it.

Let's start off with supabuddie since that's what began the whole conflict.

Quote:I never even referenced the rules or anything. I was just like "hey dude can you not use so many emoticons please thanks" and then kojjiro somehow took this as me sayying that nobody should ever use emoticons ever or something.

(If I hadn't been the one to tell him that, somebody else would have. It happens with literally ever user that uses weird text formatting or emoticons or whatever.)
I never even gave him a "warning", not even in the verbal sense. It was just "hey dude can you cut that out"

In no way did I tell him that he wasn't allowed to use them. I said don't use them in literally every post. If you'd check his post history, he has strings of emoticons in every post. In no way did I threaten him or take any sort of action against him.
In other words, this entire bullshit started over something stupid that was completely unfounded.

As far as gordon, he was banned over the "tsr mods" alt.

(11-15-2012, 08:15 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Let's start off with supabuddie since that's what began the whole conflict.

Quote:I never even referenced the rules or anything. I was just like "hey dude can you not use so many emoticons please thanks" and then kojjiro somehow took this as me sayying that nobody should ever use emoticons ever or something.

(If I hadn't been the one to tell him that, somebody else would have. It happens with literally ever user that uses weird text formatting or emoticons or whatever.)
I never even gave him a "warning", not even in the verbal sense. It was just "hey dude can you cut that out"

In no way did I tell him that he wasn't allowed to use them. I said don't use them in literally every post. If you'd check his post history, he has strings of emoticons in every post. In no way did I threaten him or take any sort of action against him.
In other words, this entire bullshit started over something stupid that was completely unfounded.

As far as gordon, he was banned over the "tsr mods" alt.

no, he was banned before that. the only thing he did was post a gif and change his name. is that against the rules? what ruleset are you guys even using? and did his harmless little name change justify a permaban?

(11-15-2012, 08:15 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Let's start off with supabuddie since that's what began the whole conflict.

Quote:I never even referenced the rules or anything. I was just like "hey dude can you not use so many emoticons please thanks" and then kojjiro somehow took this as me sayying that nobody should ever use emoticons ever or something.

(If I hadn't been the one to tell him that, somebody else would have. It happens with literally ever user that uses weird text formatting or emoticons or whatever.)
I never even gave him a "warning", not even in the verbal sense. It was just "hey dude can you cut that out"

In no way did I tell him that he wasn't allowed to use them. I said don't use them in literally every post. If you'd check his post history, he has strings of emoticons in every post. In no way did I threaten him or take any sort of action against him.
In other words, this entire bullshit started over something stupid that was completely unfounded.

As far as gordon, he was banned over the "tsr mods" alt.

If anything you ended up coming off like you were demanding him to stop though.

I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way but you usually do come off like this whenever you want someone to stop what you don't like.

EDIT:Besides, are one or two emotions in each post really that bad? At least he isn't spamming them out for no reason at all like this in every post:

Quote::ogre::ogre::ogre:

Yeah it's sort of spammy in this case but he only posted a few smileys with something to contribute at least, and it wasn't like he was making a ton of pointless posts ether.

Looking back at the logs, you're correct, he was banned before the tsr mods account. He was banned for the same reason as Algony and Dadnier, which was shitposting.
I don't care that he just posted a gif. What he did was no different than the others. If your only reason to come here is to complain and shitpost about how the staff is doing things wrong, then you shouldn't be here in the first place. Had he not been banned, he would have continued.

Dazz himself even agrees.

Quote:This isn't a country, this is a forum for a sprite website.
And with that, I utterly refuse to have it be treated like their personal soap box that I'm paying for so they can treat other people like shit. That frankly takes the piss, and I won't have it anymore.

(besides, gordon still alted, so)

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Allow me to reiterate for the hundred-billionth time: If you hate it so much here, why do you even bother coming here? There is nothing here for you. Just leave.

(11-15-2012, 08:27 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Looking back at the logs, you're correct, he was banned before the tsr mods account. He was banned for the same reason as Algony and Dadnier, which was shitposting.

if people can't shitpost in the shitposting forum, why is there a shitposting forum? do you really not see what's wrong with the "logic" you're throwing out here?

he seriously posted an image in the spam forum wow. i see these posts all of the time outside of the spam forum. are you kidding me?


if you want to suddenly start moderating these kinds of posts more "hardcore" (and not just on a certain group of people that you don't happen to like), maybe you should ease into it a little more, no? either that or start wildly flinging out permabans for first offenders and just ban half of your community. get real, dude.

(11-15-2012, 08:27 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Allow me to reiterate for the hundred-billionth time: If you hate it so much here, why do you even bother coming here? There is nothing here for you. Just leave.

You know, I've seen alot of people complain about how bad it is here but no one in this specific thread has said that once.
I also never saw any of that in the original thread in question, Metaru's and Kojjiro's points were specifically defending suppabuddies.

(11-15-2012, 07:56 PM)Alpha Six Wrote: and please don't dismiss me just because i decided to come back to defend my friends being mistreated (because it actually has nothing to do with "skypecrew" because these people are my friends), thank you very much and have a good day

Oh hey, I remember those guys, nice bunch, they're the ones who obsessively hold up the forums here as the worst thing on the entire internet and take every opportunity to snipe at the staff and members behind closed doors, and then deny it vehemently of course, right?
I can see why the bans would be so upsetting and I'm sure the mods will be very sympathetic, I'll try to put in a good word with Dazz for you.

Pleasantries aside, at the end of the day this is a privately owned website and the owner (and by extension the people they delegate authority to) can choose to allow or deny access to whoever they want, for any reason.

In this case it seems pretty clear it was disruptive behaviour even if they didn't break any of the predefined rules, so it's not like it was an arbitrary decision.
The number of alt accounts made after the fact just sort of cements the idea that those users should have been banned, if they hadn't broken the rules before, they sure have now.

The Internet, Not A Democracy - News at 11

(11-15-2012, 08:27 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Allow me to reiterate for the hundred-billionth time: If you hate it so much here, why do you even bother coming here? There is nothing here for you. Just leave.

hey, i did! and then i came back, because you guys were being rude to my friends for no reason. wow, i'm talking about you doing a bad job as a moderator because you're doing a bad job as a moderator? perish the thought!


if you really see nothing wrong with the logic of banning all of these people for "shitposting in the spam forums" and just telling us to leave instead of fixing your attitude, then i don't even know what to say. i really, really don't.

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(11-15-2012, 08:34 PM)PatientZero Wrote: obsessively hold up the forums here as the worst thing on the entire internet and take every opportunity to snipe at the staff and members behind closed doors, and then deny it vehemently

"This Group Of Friends Joke About Things Every Once In A While, So Therefore, Ergo, They Do It All The Time"