Mod edit: Split from the other thread to prevent further derailing.

My Edit: Thanks for the spilt because at this point I really started to feel like it was evolving into it;s own discussion, however I'm going to change the topic title because I feel that this isn't just some discussion about PC gaming, rather a discussion on which platform is better.

(01-04-2013, 09:10 PM)Vipershark Wrote: Actually, the JSRHD remake (for the PC, at least) was a really good enhanced port.
It would have been nice to get HD textures as well (and 60fps) but it wasn't a bad port at all.

I've heard the Nights and SA2 ports are just as good.
For the PC.

They're just as good on the console (except sonic adventure 2, I don't really care how that turns out since I already have the original game)

I don't know why PC has to be hailed as the master race of all games but hell I have both the Nights and Jet Set Radio on PS3 and they play pretty damn well.

(01-05-2013, 09:06 PM)Mr. Popo Wrote: I don't know why PC has to be hailed as the master race of all games but hell I have both the Nights and Jet Set Radio on PS3 and they play pretty damn well.

Because PC is so far above what consoles can do.
The 360 and PS3 (and technically the Wii U since it's no more powerful) are running on 2006 technology.
Low-end 2006 technology, at that; ...compared to the standards of 2006 gaming rigs, of course. (The PS3's Cell was pretty crazy back then though so I'll give it a pass but it's nothing compared to modern PCs)

Consoles are still stuck using 2006 technology while PCs have had 6 (and counting) years of advancement and power increases.

All that aside, try playing in higher than 720p (afaik JSR on consoles doesn't output in 1080p, only 720p) with 16XMSAA on a console.
Oh wait.

The PC is the master race because it's the bleeding edge of technology and can provide a far superior experience that consoles simply cannot match in terms of graphics and power. And when games get old on the PC, they can be modded to add infinite replay value.

Like music, I prefer physical copies of my games, something increasingly rare with pc's.

I agree.
I dislike digital distribution but I'd much rather have my games on steam where I can use them on multiple computers into the future instead of having them locked to a console.

(01-06-2013, 01:24 AM)Vipershark Wrote:

(01-05-2013, 09:06 PM)Mr. Popo Wrote: I don't know why PC has to be hailed as the master race of all games but hell I have both the Nights and Jet Set Radio on PS3 and they play pretty damn well.

Because PC is so far above what consoles can do.
The 360 and PS3 (and technically the Wii U since it's no more powerful) are running on 2006 technology.
Low-end 2006 technology, at that; ...compared to the standards of 2006 gaming rigs, of course. (The PS3's Cell was pretty crazy back then though so I'll give it a pass but it's nothing compared to modern PCs)

Consoles are still stuck using 2006 technology while PCs have had 6 (and counting) years of advancement and power increases.

All that aside, try playing in higher than 720p (afaik JSR on consoles doesn't output in 1080p, only 720p) with 16XMSAA on a console.
Oh wait.

The PC is the master race because it's the bleeding edge of technology and can provide a far superior experience that consoles simply cannot match in terms of graphics and power. And when games get old on the PC, they can be modded to add infinite replay value.

So basically how good you're games are solely depend on the the power of you're entertainment system.

Honestly, I find that to be ridiculous. Sure the power of you're system matters a bit but that's got nothing to do with how good the game is. And that's where I disagree about how the PC is the master race of all gaming platforms since there are some really nice games out on the consoles that will probably never make it to the PC, and this isn't the whole exclusive title thing ether.

That being said, I judge the console more on the library of games it has, not the power of it.

I have to agree, I find having a dedicated machine for video games way better than having to upgrade my computer ever so and so years. I don't exactly care about the outdated hardware, they've been able to keep things fresh with it anyway, and since no company wants to make a game where just a few with super computers would be able to play, they still have to release their games thinking about a wider userbase (and then, consoles are still the norm). Of course there's tons of mods for tons of games that can change that, Steam also makes PC Gaming great, but knowing my history with unreliable machines (and a lot of others, really), PC Gaming gives me more headache than it's worth.

Besides, portables and consoles are distancing themselves from the PC by adding gimmicks (Motion control, touch screen, 3D, tablet gamepad), so then people would, technically, have more reason to buy a console than just play on their PC. If you want to blame anything for the motion controls trend, I believe PC Gaming is high on the list (if not on the first spot).

(01-06-2013, 11:19 AM)Mutsukki Wrote: I have to agree, I find having a dedicated machine for video games way better than having to upgrade my computer ever so and so years. I don't exactly care about the outdated hardware, they've been able to keep things fresh with it anyway, and since no company wants to make a game where just a few with super computers would be able to play, they still have to release their games thinking about a wider userbase (and then, consoles are still the norm). Of course there's tons of mods for tons of games that can change that, Steam also makes PC Gaming great, but knowing my history with unreliable machines (and a lot of others, really), PC Gaming gives me more headache than it's worth.

Besides, portables and consoles are distancing themselves from the PC by adding gimmicks (Motion control, touch screen, 3D, tablet gamepad), so then people would, technically, have more reason to buy a console than just play on their PC. If you want to blame anything for the motion controls trend, I believe PC Gaming is high on the list (if not on the first spot).

I disagree. Instead of having to buy 4 or so different consoles/handhelds to play various games, I'd rather just have a computer with them all in one spot. Especially my laptop, since I can take it everywhere. Consoles are limited to where they're plugged in at (who's honestly going to carry a PS2 around with them everywhere they go?). A laptop is much more feasible, and less of a hassle. Just download and play; no CD scratches, cartridge corruptions, and etc. The only thing you need to keep up with is the computer itself.

(01-06-2013, 11:39 AM)Koh Wrote: Consoles are limited to where they're plugged in at (who's honestly going to carry a PS2 around with them everywhere they go?). A laptop is much more feasible, and less of a hassle.

I don't see why you're completely excluding handhelds. The 3DS and PSP have just as much a say in this as any other console. Hell, even the original DS does, they're still making games for it.
Also your point about needing multiple consoles is invalid. Sure, you can't get all the games for one console, but this isn't true with the PC either, as Popo pointed out. If you wanted to play every single game, you'd need every console that ever existed and have a cutting-edge PC.

Personally I prefer the PC because it can do other things as well as gaming. Hell, I can both play and make games on it (being able to mod games, which I love, also comes in here). It's also because my dad's sort of against consoles since they're solely for the purpose of "wasting time". Because of that most of my gaming experience has been on the PC, which in turn makes me prefer PC controls to gamepads or other console controls. I don't hate them (I sometimes use my USB gamepad if I feel like playing a bit casually and far from the screen), but I'm just more comfortable and "agile" with a keyboard and mouse than the current console controllers.
As for game libraries, for the most part the PC is sufficient for me. It has pretty much every genre of game, and games I've seen from consoles don't really have anything I want that I can't already get on the PC. I'm partial to indie games too, since they often have fresh and interesting ideas, and currently the only console that has started to support indie developers is the Wii U. And even then they have to be accepted, while with a PC you can play games that haven't been approved or accepted by any commercial company.

I do have a DS, although that was a gift. That's not to say I don't enjoy the games, the range of uses of the touch-screen and dual-screens are wonderful. Plus it's portable, which is great.
But basically, I wouldn't buy a console if I already have a PC. I may want one or two games on it that I can't find an equivalent of, but I wouldn't buy an entire console for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like console games. My two favourite games (that is, if you count nostalgia) are console games, on different consoles even. Some games I've played on consoles are absolutely unrivalled on the PC. And if I get the chance to play on a friend's console I almost always take it, especially if they have a game I've heard is good.

But yeah, on the whole I prefer a PC. (wow I wrote a lot)

(01-06-2013, 12:31 PM)puggsoy Wrote: Also your point about needing multiple consoles is invalid. Sure, you can't get all the games for one console, but this isn't true with the PC either, as Popo pointed out. If you wanted to play every single game, you'd need every console that ever existed and have a cutting-edge PC.

Yes, but allow me to sort of argue with myself for a second to point out something that the people who support PC gaming say to defend that:

Emulation.

In a way, emulation would prove my point invalid... That is if it wasn't for the following factors:

1.) Granted that you can play all the games on a PC through this, that would technically make it so that the PC is the best thing for gaming, but since most games would have to be ripped from their cartridge or discs, it would still take time to even get them all on your computer and even doing so would take up memory on your hard drive. That and you would have to wait for a good emulator to come out, and by the time that happens a new console will come out.

2.) Even if you could emulate anything up to the WiiU/PS3/360, you'd have to have the perfect PC in order to have it run perfectly. Not just some PC that is just "Cutting Edge" or great when it comes to technology, I'm talking about the technology that could make you're PC practically a borderline super computer. What I'm trying to say is that even a good PC isn't good enough to run all of this shit and chances are, you would have to get a desktop and probably upgrade the shit out of it. And I'm willing to bet it would be really hard to do this on a laptop. Even if you could do that for a laptop I would still have to point out you would need the knowledge to even add the right parts to your PC so you don't completely fuck it up, and that would keep a lot of people, let alone the mainstream away from it.

Hell it's even hard for me to emulate gamecube games on my laptop, and right now since my focus is college I don't have the time and money to even consider buying the parts to upgrade it.

3.) It's also technically illegal if you just download ROMs like crazy. I don't normally consider this a problem since there's a really low chance that the FBI would come knocking at my door for pirating games, but with that being said there's still that chance there. Unless you have the hardware and software to just back it up, which is also going to cost you, it would mean that you'd have to buy all the games you want to play and then you would have to figure out how to dump the ROM which would make it legal under fair use, since you're really just backing up you're ROMs for all the feds know. But even then that's a massive pain in the ass to do.

So in a way, emulation has it's flaws, which only adds on to the list of things on how many flaws the PC has to keep it from being the god tier of all platforms out there. Which only goes back to my point on how you can't play every game on the PC.

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(01-06-2013, 12:31 PM)puggsoy Wrote: As for game libraries, for the most part the PC is sufficient for me. It has pretty much every genre of game, and games I've seen from consoles don't really have anything I want that I can't already get on the PC. I'm partial to indie games too, since they often have fresh and interesting ideas, and currently the only console that has started to support indie developers is the Wii U. And even then they have to be accepted, while with a PC you can play games that haven't been approved or accepted by any commercial company.

Of course ignoring that the 360 has had heavy support for indie developers for quite some time now. That's actually news to me and some how I'm glad to hear that nintendo is finally giving a shit about the indie scene.

You know, this is just a giant opinion battle. Everyone's still going to have their preference at the end of the day. Consoles have been dead to me after the PS2, so I don't even care about them anymore. I mostly emulate older games (NES/SNES/GBA era), play indie games (Terraria, Minecraft, etc.) and develop my own now.

(01-06-2013, 06:40 PM)Koh Wrote: You know, this is just a giant opinion battle. Everyone's still going to have their preference at the end of the day. Consoles have been dead to me after the PS2, so I don't even care about them anymore. I mostly emulate older games (NES/SNES/GBA era), play indie games (Terraria, Minecraft, etc.) and develop my own now.

Well in a way you're right, but that doesn't mean we can't have some form of discussion about them.

Sure, everyone has opinions and we can all respect that (sort of) and I think it's great to have these discussions.

That being said I kind of feel the need to say that I play games on my PC too, it's great and all but in my honest opinion it's not as perfect as most people make it out to be which is why I'm kind of arguing that point.

While I agree that PC hardware has the potential to be cutting edge by comparison to a home console that pretty much ceases to BE cutting edge shortly after it is released, I have to say that a larger number of console games appeal to me more than what's out there for PC.

As far as gaming is concerned I just see PCs as another platform to play games on, and like most of my other consoles I don't really elevate it to something higher than the others. I just play what I want to play when I want to play it.

I have every console this gen except the wiiU, I also have every console of last gen and a high end gaming PC.

There is no arguing that pc is the best platform out there, it is.
But does it have the best games? No, that's a matter of opinion.

I've had more fun playing games on my consoles this gen than on my PC (If I'm only counting single player games)
But consoles are just holding video games back.
Imagine if they released Zelda games on PC? They'd look better today than they will look 5 years from now on consoles.

Look at games like Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim and Dark Souls, great games but they suffer from huge FPS drops, shitty draw distance and piss poor resolution.
If they'd developed those games primarily for PC (i'm not talking about ports) They could be so much more.

And it isn't not just graphics, it's gameplay too, with the power of a decent gaming PC you can have more enemies on screen at once, better A.I, better physics, custom controls etc. Look at the Xbox 360 version of Minecraft, the worlds are tiny, on the PC they are infinite.

So yeah i've been mostly playing consoles this gen, because all the best games that have come out have come out exclusively on consoles, but there is not a single one of those games that couldn't have been better if it was developed primarily for the PC.

And before someone argues that you can relax with a console and play from the couch, Steam's 'Big Picture Mode' allows you to play on a tv with a controller friendly interface, so there's no excuse any more.

You're basically speaking for the power of the PC which still makes it arguable to an extent.

I'm not going to deny that it can't be a massive powerhouse, but as games are evolving there's always the need to update your PC's hardware to make it cutting edge. Even if the gameplay and everything is far improved, it's still has that flaw and it goes back to the money factor.

Again, I don't think that the power of one platform has anything to do with being "The best", and it's a rather absurd way to look at how great a console is in my honest opinion.

EDIT: The library of games matter just as much as the power and to be honest I think the "what if's" or "Could have beens" aren't really factors to the reality of it, even thought they are possibilities and all you can't argue with the reality of it.

The excuse still is that a high end PC is way more expensive than a console and the hardware gets old way faster. I try to take care of my PC, but in the long run it always ends up with some problem and not running recent games properly or whatever. Unlike a console which still works pretty well 10 years from now and you don't have to deal with bullshit like versions made for different OS and all that. I'm sure PC Gaming is great and all, but I don't see why PC Gamers have to put up this banner every single time. It's like they feel left out, despite claiming to be "superior".

Not related to the above, but emulators are not really a factor to see if PC Gaming is viable. If every game was made for the PC, there would be no need for emulators. The reason you need a good PC for emulating, it's because you basically need 2x the power of the machine to emulate it, because it was made with dedicated hardware.