Heheh, yeah okay, F-Zero has more characters. How many of them are significant IN THE LEAST? The second most significant/popular character from the series is Samurai Goroh whose only important because he's the Cap's sucky rival. That is literally his character: sucky, overweight samurai racer guy. Among other characters uh... there's Black Shadow, who is boring and sucky, Deathborn who was made up by a 3rd party developer for GX, and Rick Wheeler from GP Legend, who is... really boring and forgettable? No one cares about Pico or Dr. Stewart, either. It's a racing game, the characters don't matter and Captain Falcon is there because he's at mascot status for what used to be an important series for Nintendo.

(And I'd throw in some candidates from Mother but typing on my phone is a hassle, maybe someone else can throw their ideas (Paula, Kumatora, Porky, Flint, Masked Man?)

Travis Touchdown and Bayonetta for Super Smash Bros
Ohh a guy can dream

Just comparing the primary characters for both franchises:

F-Zero:

Captain Falcon, Blood Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Pico, Rick Wheeler, Dr. Stewart, Deathborn, Black Shadow, *Possibly Jody Summer*, *Possibly Octoman (he's crossed over before)*

Total Number of Significant Characters: 8
Total Number of Potential Significant Characters: 10

Mother:

Ninten, Lloyd, Teddy, Ana, Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo, Lucas, Flint, Boney, Duster, Salsa, Kumatora, Porky, Claus, Giygas

Number of Protagonist and Antagonist Characters: 17

To make things fair, I didn't even include other important characters like King or Pippi. Earthbound still far outstrips F-Zero any day of the week.

Giygas for playable character.

The only F-Zero character I can see appearing in the next game is Samurai Goroh, whereas I can see Mother characters like Jeff, Claus, even Porky appearing as playable fighters in the next game.

(06-15-2013, 09:25 PM)Trollerskates Wrote: Giygas for playable character.

A Giegue skin on Mewtwo would be great...

I think it's possible that Lucas can get cut (as much as I'd really hate to see that :C ), but not for the reason that F-Zero only has one character.
If anything, when it comes to character cuts, the priority is most likely weeding out the clones than equalizing the franchise representation.

I doubt Wolf and Toon Link are coming back for this same reason

(06-15-2013, 07:58 PM)Tellis Wrote: Heheh, yeah okay, F-Zero has more characters. How many of them are significant IN THE LEAST? The second most significant/popular character from the series is Samurai Goroh whose only important because he's the Cap's sucky rival. That is literally his character: sucky, overweight samurai racer guy. Among other characters uh... there's Black Shadow, who is boring and sucky, Deathborn who was made up by a 3rd party developer for GX, and Rick Wheeler from GP Legend, who is... really boring and forgettable? No one cares about Pico or Dr. Stewart, either. It's a racing game, the characters don't matter and Captain Falcon is there because he's at mascot status for what used to be an important series for Nintendo.

So your argument is that F-Zero characters are sucky and Mother characters are cool? Okay gotcha.

(06-15-2013, 08:35 PM)Kriven Wrote: Earthbound still far outstrips F-Zero any day of the week.

How can you even measure what it means to be significant? Every character in F-Zero has their own background and personality. Jody Summer is the spokeswomen for the Galactic Space Federation and leads the fight against criminals like Black Shadow and Zoda. Every character is connected in some way to each other... well I guess characters like Bio Rex don't really matter.

The thing about Mother it has a new set of characters EACH GAME whereas F-Zero uses the same cast each time. Besides Ness/ Paula are pretty much the same characters as Ninten/ Ana.

Why do you think Mario or Pokemon has so many characters? It's not because these are rich "cool" characters. It's because the series itself is so beloved.
Mother series is no more important than F-Zero and it won't get more characters because it's characters are so cool and you like them so much. That's not how Smash works.

You are just simply biased. You are familiar with the Mother characters and have fallen in love with them and that's why you think they deserve to be in this game.
Guess what, millions of people have a franchise of characters they have fallen in love with and are dieing to see in Smash. So what makes yours so much more important than theirs or anyone else?

(06-15-2013, 10:07 PM)Baegal Wrote: I think it's possible that Lucas can get cut (as much as I'd really hate to see that :C ), but not for the reason that F-Zero only has one character.
If anything, when it comes to character cuts, the priority is most likely weeding out the clones than equalizing the franchise representation.

I doubt Wolf and Toon Link are coming back for this same reason

Well I'm not saying it's BECAUSE of F-Zero Lucas will be cut. I'm saying that the two always were intended to have one character, and now that Sakurai needs to cut some guys for space it's very likely he'll choose Lucas.

I'll admit F-Zero doesn't really need another character... But neither does Mother.

(06-15-2013, 10:11 PM)Koopaul Wrote: Why do you think Mario or Pokemon has so many characters? It's not because these are rich "cool" characters. It's because the series itself is so beloved.

Your argument kinda confuses me.
I can't quite put my finger on it though.
I think it's because your reason is the series are more "beloved".
Mother has a huge fanbase. You could easily say it's loved. It just doesn't get a game every other year like Pokemon or Mario. Mostly a popularity thing
F-Zero on the other hand, has a very tiny fan presence. I'm not saying a lot of people don't like it or anything, but you won't be seeing many forums dedicated to the series.
I'm not trying to say Mother should have more characters than F-Zero, but why it could have.
It doesn't really matter how many reps, but if a series if represented in the first place imo.

I'm laughing my ass off at how ridiculous your assertioins are. I know so little about the Mother franchise that I had to research half of Mother 3's protagonists before I made my post. I've played every F-Zero game, and would absolutely love Black Shadow, Deathborn, and Blood Falcon to appear in Super Smash Bros. The superhero aesthetic of that franchise appeals to me far more than the Peanuts style of Earthbound, which I've never played to completion.

Also, Bio Rex is my favorite character.

I'm viewing this from the perspective of somebody who adores the F-Zero franchise and its characters, not a Mother fan. And from this perspective I can still tell that the Mother franchise is a class above F-Zero.

Regardless, I'm done debating with you if you're going to invent a false representation of who I am to rationalize your stance.



Unrelated: I checked out the site just now to snag the logo. Noticed that Fox and Kirby have been added:

The main concern I see with other F-Zero characters getting into Smash Bros is that it is a racing game, and besides the cutscenes in between races, it's hard to develop someone who is in a vehicle the entire time into a working character. The only thing that I could see is if they worked into the anime series to make one of the characters into a fighter.

With the Star Fox series, they at least had Star Fox Adventures where they were outside of the vehicles. I just think that getting a good amount of characters from a racing game into a fighting game would be difficult.

EDIT: James McCloud for SSB4.

(06-15-2013, 10:11 PM)Koopaul Wrote: So your argument is that F-Zero characters are sucky and Mother characters are cool? Okay gotcha.

Okay, I can see your point but I still feel the need to respond to this? Because I what I was saying is that, as much as I ADORE the campiness and silliness of the F-Zero characters, they are absolutely not beloved characters because their characters are only ever part of the game if you feel like reading about their backstories in the profile menu. Because it's a friggin' racing game. Not an RPG, where the characters's stories actually have any sort of impact on the game itself. And yeah, Mario and Pokemon have more characters due to their popularity, but each of the characters in each ALSO have made at least SOME difference when it comes to gameplay in their games. As opposed to F-Zero characters who boil down to being lighter/heavier, slower/faster, and better or worse handling. And there's 30+ of the friggin' dudes.

I mean, F-Zero GX is one of my favorite games EVER and I'd friggin love, like, Mighty Gazelle or Baba or Bio Rex as a character but it just isn't gonna happen because no one else is as important to the series as Captain Falcon (and even that's arguable). The big difference here is that Mother is incredibly popular and F-Zero just... isn't (which is criminal but the truth), and Mother's characters are interestingly varied and could have really cool movesets (which is why it's a shame that Lucas is such a clone). Yes, Lucas might be cut, but I argue it'd upset way more people than if F-Zero's hypothetical second character got cut.

... but can we get a Phoenix costume for Captain Falcon. I would pay money for that.

(06-15-2013, 10:26 PM)Ploaj Wrote: Your argument kinda confuses me.
I can't quite put my finger on it though.
I think it's because your reason is the series are more "beloved".
Mother has a huge fanbase. You could easily say it's loved. It just doesn't get a game every other year like Pokemon or Mario. Mostly a popularity thing
F-Zero on the other hand, has a very tiny fan presence. I'm not saying a lot of people don't like it or anything, but you won't be seeing many forums dedicated to the series.
I'm not trying to say Mother should have more characters than F-Zero, but why it could have.

Fanbase is only a fraction of the love. How much the company loves the series has greater power over us nerds. Also you didn't factor the love of the common folk. In the eyes of the commoner, people know no more about Mother than F-Zero. Average Joe would have the same idea of what they are. But series like Mario they could identify immediately.

(06-15-2013, 10:26 PM)Ploaj Wrote: It doesn't really matter how many reps, but if a series if represented in the first place imo.

Actually it does. Wouldn't you call bullshit id Donkey Kong had four characters and Mario only had two?

(06-15-2013, 10:26 PM)Kriven Wrote: I'm viewing this from the perspective of somebody who adores the F-Zero franchise and its characters, not a Mother fan. And from this perspective I can still tell that the Mother franchise is a class above F-Zero.

Regardless, I'm done debating with you if you're going to invent a false representation of who I am to rationalize your stance.

I'm sorry. But you can't blame me for trying to rationalize why someone thinks Mother is a class above F-Zero. The first idea that pops in your head is that they like the series better. So I'm sorry I did that.

But really we're having the wrong debate here. We are debating "Why a Character Should Get In" instead of "Why a Character Will Get In" which all comes down to Sakurai.

I could debate with you guys forever that F-Zero is equal footing with Mother and only should have one character. But Sakurai is the one who decides that.

We're arguing over trivialities. I like Mother and F-zero but I find having a second character from either series completely pointless if they're just going to be clones. If anything they need to be rather different than the main character that's already in the smash series in terms of a move set. The same goes for the Star Fox cast, we don't need Falco and we don't need Wolf. They were almost the exact same thing and when I unlocked them it wasn't like "OOOH NEW CHARACTER" it was more like "Oh cool a clone/reskin. Meh"

For example; Luigi. Yes he's Mario's brother, and yes it's a given they're both going to throw fireballs and have some kind of upward jump attack. But look at how differently luigi played in Brawl compared to Mario.