Cars without rockets, turtle shells, or lightning bolts, I might add.

(06-16-2013, 01:22 PM)Koopaul Wrote: No the whole "its easier for them to be a fighter" argument is irrelevant.

Well in that case we might as well have a Nintendog in this Smash Bros.

Yeah, lets have a Nintendog Pitbull jump up and down while he bites off everyone's face and make it so that he cant be hurt unless someone throws a bone off the stage, because after all. We don't want anyone bitching about animal cruelty in a Nintendo Game now don't we?

No. It's completely relevant. How the fuck can you make something fight when it can not fight? At least Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter and Samurai Goroh is a samurai who can perform a ton of backflips without breaking a sweat. (and yet all they do in the games is still drive a car) A Nintendog on the other hand would not only be incredibly hard to pull off because it doesn't fight, but it wouldn't make much sense.

Also, the Villager is kind of a character where you can mold it into any kind of character. I don't know the exact word for it but shit in game you could make him into any kind of character you want, you can make him a douche or a kind loving person depending on how you interact with everyone (my memory is a bit foggy here on animal crossing, but you can interact with everyone in different ways can't you?). So in a way having the villager in Super Smash Bros can make sense. Lets not get started on Mr. Game and Watch because technically he's an original character based off the Game and Watch games.

(06-16-2013, 04:00 PM)TreeStar Wrote: I don't know the exact word for it...

"Avatar" or "Proxy" are both appropriate.

All ROB can do is stack things and spin Gyros. That didn't stop them from giving him laser beams and jets. Character doesn't have a moveset? You make something up.

Even Fox had a made up moveset. I mean, all he does is pilot a starship. But you're still missing the point! Star Fox is a character-heavy game and R.O.B was an iconic accessory to the NES. F-Zero is NOT a game based around characters. There are few that you can say that are suited to be introduced in a fighting game like this, because they're not really relevant at all. They don't have any set personality or anything. Excluding GC, all characters were pretty impersonal and you rarely knew something about them.

(06-16-2013, 04:48 PM)Koopaul Wrote: All ROB can do is stack things and spin Gyros. That didn't stop them from giving him laser beams and jets. Character doesn't have a moveset? You make something up.

making something up is more difficult than having an already dynamic character and adapting him

stop with this crap already, let's not forget that SSB is a collection of ICONIC character from ICONIC series. F-Zero is an ICONIC series (somewhat) but has no iconic characters enough. Just get, for example, a pic of Pico and show it to people. They won't recognize him as well as they would Ness (whose game is a Cult Classic loved by the entire Japan and a shitton of fans elsewhere), or Villager (which is from a game everyone loves), or ROB (which was an icon of the resurrection of the gaming industry and what really sold the NES at first). It's not SSB playing favorites, it's the gamers themselves playing favorites. F-Zero simply is not a game revolved in character that much.

Captain Falcon himself is kinda lucky being in SSB because he wasn't popular as he was originally planned. Hadn't the SNES used mode-7 to program F-Zero (which was a groundbreaking feature at the time), no one would even care about him. Dare I say, I think people know more about him because of SSB than F-Zero itself.

So when people say that EB can have more potential characters than F-Zero, don't cry or have a tantrum because it's the truth. Any RPG has more personality in their characters than F-Zero did in their games.

Koopaul's not throwing a tantrum, he's giving his opinion which you happen to disagree with ...

(06-16-2013, 05:50 PM)Gorsalami Wrote: I think people know more about him because of SSB than F-Zero itself.

I'm pretty sure that's the case. So much that Falcon Punch became so iconic that it crossed over to the main games (I think he does that in GX, but not sure) and the anime, heh.

My brother and I have always commended Captain Falcon above other characters in the original Smash Brothers because he was created with absolutely NOTHING to work with prior other than the character design and backstory. His moves (whether you love them or hate them) were derived completely from pure inspiration, and have even gone so far as to shape what the character is BECAUSE of Smash (For example the Anime, where he actually performs a Falcon Punch). Other characters at the start of the series had almost all their special moves derived from SOMEWHERE in their series, whether borrowed from fellow characters or being a trademark move of their own. Smash brought Falcon in and made him something completely new and awesome.

Wait you guys think I'm angry? No I'm just trying to explain to you why I disagree.

See the problem is everyone has different arguments.
Sometimes you say it's because it's a racing game and they don't have a moveset: so I point out ROB and say they can make one up.
You say it's because the characters aren't recognized: I'll point out out Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch and other obscure characters.
You say Mother is a higher franchise: I remind you that Mother has had three games while F-Zero has had six and a TV series.
Now you say Mother's characters have personality? Since when did that ever matter in Smash?

Anyway I'm just going to say this, but if Mother didn't have it's fanbase (which is still not the general public by the way) it would be a lesser franchise than F-Zero. Considering it's number of games and just how much Nintendo seems to care about it: F-Zero made cameos in Super Mario RPG, Animal Crossing, Kirby Super Star, Mario Kart, and more. Mother had only one cameo that I'm aware of in Kirby Super Star. (It shows Nintendo itself likes F-Zero more than Mother) It's literally just the fanbase that makes this franchise so big and has everything else against it. I'm just saying

I personally believe fan-favorites, movesets, and "personality" have nothing to do with character decisions in Smash and really shouldn't.

Well hey, anything without it's fanbase is practically non-existent anyway.

(06-16-2013, 07:53 PM)Koopaul Wrote: I personally believe fan-favorites, movesets, and "personality" have nothing to do with character decisions in Smash and really shouldn't.

Actually, characters that are going to be popular with the widest audience possible. A character with an interesting moveset based on skills they already have or could be tailored specifically for the Smash series make the game fresh and fun to play. And lastly, why wouldn't you want a character with personality in a colorful mash-up of characters like Smash Bros? You can even play on the LACK of a personality, like Game and Watch, ROB's Wall-E like qualities, or the Wii Fit girl just being obsessed with physical fitness and basing her entire fighting style on excercises.

All those things ARE important.

(06-16-2013, 07:53 PM)Koopaul Wrote: Anyway I'm just going to say this, but if Mother didn't have it's fanbase (which is still not the general public by the way) it would be a lesser franchise than F-Zero. Considering it's number of games and just how much Nintendo seems to care about it: F-Zero made cameos in Super Mario RPG, Animal Crossing, Kirby Super Star, Mario Kart, and more. Mother had only one cameo that I'm aware of in Kirby Super Star. (It shows Nintendo itself likes F-Zero more than Mother) It's literally just the fanbase that makes this franchise so big and has everything else against it. I'm just saying

I personally believe fan-favorites, movesets, and "personality" have nothing to do with character decisions in Smash and really shouldn't.

F-Zero's fanbase is not the general public, either. If I took a couple gamers out of a random pick at a convention and showed them a character from F-Zero who's NOT Falcon, I figure they'd have a pretty difficult time of it - while I'd argue that the Chosen 4 from Earthbound are fairly recognizable among the gaming community even though only two of them have shown up in SSB (and Jeff was only an assist trophy.)

Don't you fucking say Nintendo "likes F-Zero more." You are not Nintendo, cameos do not equal how much they like something. Earthbound's only really cameo-worthy things are the Mr. Saturn (a living race of sentient beings that would be awkward to shoehorn into RPGs and such,) the Franklin Badge (Not recognizable without zooming in to see the print on the front,) and possibly the Starmen (same issue as Mr. Saturns.) And if we're gonna talk about Mother cameos, uh? Hello? MEW FUCKIN TWO?

Honestly I think Earthbound has had a huge influence on other Nintendo games outside of cameos. Its brand of writing and humor can be seen in other Nintendo RPGs like Paper Mario, the Mario and Luigi games, and I'd be surprised if someone told me Link's Awakening's writing wasn't at the very least inspired a bit by Earthbound's.

You are not Nintendo, and the people who make those games in which F-Zero cameos are part of different teams who may or may not represent Nintendo's general opinion on a series, so don't act like you know what they think.

Also keep in mind the hype surrounding Earthbound's VC re-release and the fact that Nintendo often have character slots dedicated to "current" characters (Ike replacing Roy because Tellius was the current FE series, Lucario replacing Mewtwo because Gen4 was current and Lucario was kind of the posterchild, etc.) I think they're going to keep two slots for Mother characters, and POSSIBLY add one more if they'd rather not swap out Lucas to add someone new.

And I wouldn't be adverse to a new face from F-Zero either. I've always wanted to play those games.

And of course there's more cameos across the board in Nintendo games because it was made by Nintendo EAD, which is the division responsible for Mario, Animal Crossing, Zelda, Pikmin, and Star Fox, among others.

Meanwhile the Mother series was developed by HAL Laboratory, who Sakurai (and several other members of Sora) used to work for. This is why the only concrete Earthbound reference is in Kirby, which was also developed by HAL. Futhermore, HAL still has a huge hand in the creation of Smash Bros. games, so even if the developers are playing favorites as much as you seem to think they are... Mother is much closer to them than F-Zero is. Which, actually, is why you already see more Mother stuff in Smash Bros. already.

Which is why it seems doubtful they'll knock Mother back down to one character.

By the way, that's why Pokémon doesn't make cameos in any of these games either, because it's made by Gamefreaks and not EAD. And we all know that Nintendo loves Pokémon.

(This is also why Kirby, Pokémon and Mother never have any microgames in Wario Ware either, heh)