Wow, I was thinking that you have been one of the "already established" and wise users that make up a large amount of this site (Ton, Mighty, CBL, and Omega are only a fraction of several other like them), but seeing as you didn't become extremely active until 2012, I actually feel pretty sorry for you for missing out. Also, to miss out because you were afraid of posting on a hostile forum really reeks of rancid milk. While I'm glad this site is no longer like that, that fact that it was dodgy to the point that it even driven you away is anything but right.

Anyway, you're in the right she you said that you only like the older spriters for their work and you feel that they are generally toxic. While I cannot imagine any of the spriters you have listed (with only one exception that I am worried about sharing for getting criticized over) as being spiteful, I'll take you're word for it and be careful if I ever have to deal with them (although I don't imagine myself ever requesting any sprites from Frario).

I guess I huge part of why some users tend to be so negative is that they not only had the kind of upbringing most people have, but they are also too young to know any better. It's one thing to act like a "n00b" who wants to be a sprite master or whatever and tends to make mistakes, but I feel that the more talented spriters back then felt that their huge reputation meant that they could get away with more things a common user would. This is enforced by the fact that all we generally see is the positive side of the spriter (i.e. moderately friendly attitude and god-like sprite powers) instead of actually taking the time to look into their social flaws. I realize that we all have our shortcomings, but if they are the kind of flaws that would lead to venomous behavior coming out of them, then it's better to do something about that before anyone is unfortunate enough to hit that one hair trigger that sets that user off. I felt like that the community used to only scolded the new members for acting like this and basically turned a blind eye away from the more successful spriters if they act hostile towards anyone regardless of their reasons. Provided, this web site does not think like that anymore, but giving the old spriters this kind of freedom has its toll if they still think they could get away with being toxic anymore.

That's not it so much as most of the amazing spriters in question were all on the staff team at the time so it wasn't that they were "allowed" to do those things, they just made and enforced the rules themselves so nobody stopped them since it was their own job to do so.

Anyway the staff team has more or less completely changed since then and while we try to be relaxed and fun about things and give people a hard time sometimes, I think we're all in agreement that being straight up toxic isn't cool anymore.

(04-17-2014, 05:53 PM)StarSock64 Wrote: I think the major problems are:

1) All of the skilled users are busy.
2) The users who seem to want to get better at art do not display the proper drive or discipline to do so, and they do not do the things necessary to become a good artist. There isn't much content posted, and the quality of said content is not great. Regular users post something once every few months at best.

And the consequences of these basically lead to

1) Nobody is inspiring others or showing them the benefits of studying art. C+C is not being given at a good pace or with good depth. Art resources are not being shared, leaving the userbase generally ignorant.
2) The culture on the forum is seriously lazy. People don't seem to understand what steps you must take to become a good artist. The less hostile environment the forum has cultivated is more pleasant and comfortable to be in, but it has made the userbase utterly complacent and disinterested in getting their butts in gear. People seem content with their mediocrity, and only get the urge to do art on a rare basis.

Most importantly, this leads me to the conclusion that...

...adding more new members isn't going to be enough. It would be great, yes, but getting them to come is pointless if you do not give them a reason to stay or to contribute. We need content. New people aren't going to make it for us with this environment.

My impression is that there simply aren't that many users who treat their art seriously. As such their motivation/will isn't very strong so they tend to give up and go away. I haven't seen much passion for art on the forum this past year and a half. Besides, those who are serious on the art will look elsewhere for more relevance and attention.

I suggest we take a step back and look at today - we've talked about social media and about specific people who've come and gone on the forum. What about videogames, though? How have they changed in the space of five years, how does that impact the nature of the assets we rip, and how has it determined the kind of users who frequent this forum now?

So my question is: can we do something with all these sprites and spritesheets we're archiving? How can we stand out from other forums when it comes to creativity?
How can we creatively use this resource?

I think I should stress that the user base used to be toxic;
I don't want anyone to infer that I was "calling anyone out," because I wasn't; it just so happens that the names
I listed were some of my favorite artists on the site at the time, and some of them seemed to like to stir the pot quite a bit

most of the older users that have dwindled away have moved on to other forums, and other communities
and a little research would gleen that most of them have chilled out or straightened up considerably
hell, some are downright sociable now
Thankfully age and experience have helped that, and some of them even have steady paid work

sometimes we even get surprise visits from them (even if by using alt accounts), and that is always a treat
It's fun seeing familiar faces, especially when they have new cool things to show us

(04-20-2014, 11:56 PM)Chris2Balls [:B] Wrote: I suggest we take a step back and look at today - we've talked about social media and about specific people who've come and gone on the forum. What about videogames, though? How have they changed in the space of five years, how does that impact the nature of the assets we rip, and how has it determined the kind of users who frequent this forum now?

Well, ever since the site expanded to incorporate more VG Resources, including models, I noticed that a lot of the submission activity is coming from the model part of the forum. The primary reason why that is relates to how most of the sprite sheets from the more popular games have already been ripped. As a result, new rippers turn to ripping models to earn their keep. Considering that there are thousands of models that remain untouched by rippers, I can imagine that part of the section receiving a lot of business for years to come. Also, since CGI models are the norm in games these days, there will be more new models to rip then there are sprites.

While that is fine and all, the one thing that slightly bothers me is that most of the model rippers (especially the new ones) are ignoring the main site and mostly keeping to themselves. If this forum were to keep getting new member to talk to and contribute, then we may as well find a way to persuade those users to leave their "hangout" and give the rest of the forum a try.

(04-20-2014, 10:29 PM)Vipershark Wrote: That's not it so much as most of the amazing spriters in question were all on the staff team at the time so it wasn't that they were "allowed" to do those things, they just made and enforced the rules themselves so nobody stopped them since it was their own job to do so.

Anyway the staff team has more or less completely changed since then and while we try to be relaxed and fun about things and give people a hard time sometimes, I think we're all in agreement that being straight up toxic isn't cool anymore.

Hm, that makes sense, Vipershark. If the admin of a certain web site acts like a jerk to everyone else, who exactly do you report that kind of behavior to? It's easier to do if it is a site with more than one admin (provided that the other ones are actually respectful), but if this admin is the only one on the forum, things get pretty complicated from there. I'm very glad that the staff no longer acts nasty to anyone anymore (with the exception of what happened to Vinn, but he brought that upon himself instead of realizing that we were only trying to help him) and that I can assume that you guys take more careful measures in choosing new mods and admins.

That being said, though, it does make me wonder how that factors for the non-admin examples of spiteful users. I'm not that well versed in the history of this web site, but I don't think that (don't quote me on this) Frario was not even a mod (heck, I didn't even think Frario was even toxic to begin with since only one of the spriters Sevenstitch mentioned was the one I'm most familiar with). Considering this, it makes me wonder if there was any factors that let those kinds of spriters get off scotch free with acting toxic.


Anyway, Sevenstitch, I didn't see you as calling anyone out. You were only being honest and if you had to use specific examples and users to to convey your experiences, I wouldn't blame you. While it's true that a lot of the best spriters on this site where pretty nasty, it is easy to forgive any of that as long as they ended up losing their venom and act friendly without any hint of hostility or superiority. I can't say that all the spriters eventually dropped this kind of spitefulness, but from what I've seen so far, almost everyone on this web site is kind and very helpful.

Shit, things have changed around here haven't they? I gotta admit while I tended not to go out of my way to be toxic to people here, there was always a morbid fascination of it with me. Particularly how it acted as a filter for people. The ones who wouldn't amount to anything would flare up, get pissed and bail in an overly dramatic way. The ones who could take it... well, those people went on to do great and impressive things, looks like a few of the ones I remember ended up actually being pretty damn awesome.

Hell, I grew up, and though I used to have a bigger role around here under my old name, I realized how much of a jackass even I was being. That things were cruel to novices, that people were getting turned away, but it really had a sense of solidarity around here when everyone picked their sides and had fun with it.

Figured my glasses were rose colored at the time, but I guess lots of people were seeing red. I only hope I didn't come back to a dying waste of a forum to throw a few fond hellos and critiques about and ruin that nostalgia. There's still stuff going on here, right?

Aw, don't worry about that too much, RabidPeep! From what I've seen, the VG Resource is still going strong and we already have a few new members who are making a big difference.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that most of us has been nasty to other users in some shape or form. Heck! Even I've been a bit spiteful because I tend to get that way when other users see something wrong with me and give me hostile treatment due to it. Of course, I learned in time that acting that way at all is far from acceptable and I got into trouble with some users on multiple occasions as a result (that and I felt very guilty afterwards for even acting that way to begin with). In fact, a major factor in dropping that negativity is getting acceptance here and mingling with the positive users of this site.

Basically, my advice to anyone who is getting peeved by negative users is to not have this lead to where they become toxic themselves. Even if it does happen, though, they'll be fine as long as they grow out of it and find a place where they belong the best. I wasn't thinking that I would ever amount to anything on this web site because I was not only in the shadow of the more respected users, but it was also the web site where the two users who made me so negative in the first place made a huge impact. Once I gave this place another chance several months ago, I realized that I actually have something good here that I won't let my negative emotions spoil for me.

(04-24-2014, 06:51 PM)E-Man Wrote: Aw, don't worry about that too much, RabidPeep! From what I've seen, the VG Resource is still going strong and we already have a few new members who are making a big difference.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that most of us has been nasty to other users in some shape or form. Heck! Even I've been a bit spiteful because I tend to get that way when other users see something wrong with me and give me hostile treatment due to it. Of course, I learned in time that acting that way at all is far from acceptable and I got into trouble with some users on multiple occasions as a result (that and I felt very guilty afterwards for even acting that way to begin with). In fact, a major factor in dropping that negativity is getting acceptance here and mingling with the positive users of this site.

Basically, my advice to anyone who is getting peeved by negative users is to not have this lead to where they become toxic themselves. Even if it does happen, though, they'll be fine as long as they grow out of it and find a place where they belong the best. I wasn't thinking that I would ever amount to anything on this web site because I was not only in the shadow of the more respected users, but it was also the web site where the two users who made me so negative in the first place made a huge impact. Once I gave this place another chance several moths ago, I realized that I actually have something good here that I won't let my negative emotions spoil it for me.

Yeah, there have been a few new members who HAVE been making a change... *cough cough*... anyone know any?
...anyone?
...

I think the newest member that even made a huge impact is Level 1. Mighty Jetters was the one previous to that, whom has stuck out.


Anyway yeah things are slower around here however I do hope to be of help and changing this. No this is not the particlar reason why I'm on the staff again, but being in a position of power helps again.

I've noticed that the slowest parts of this site are TSoR and TTR. It's been almost a month since I tried submitting sounds and textures, and they're still in the pending stage.

I'm not complaining, I'm just wondering what's taking so long.

(04-24-2014, 07:49 PM)Kat Wrote: I think the newest member that even made a huge impact is Level 1. Mighty Jetters was the one previous to that, whom has stuck out.

I can understand Level 1, but what about Iocus? He's just as positive and talented as Level 1, so shouldn't he get some credit, too?

Who the hell is Iocus? (No offense to you man, I just haven't seen you around the forums yet)

The fact that I even have to ask that, should prove that no, they are in fact not making that much of an impact. Not nearly as much as Level 1 whom I've seen post around a lot.

It usually takes me a while before I remember someone but... who's Level 1?

@Kat I wouldn't say Iocus hasn't made an impact just because he doesn't post as much. He has less posts, but they are often superb critique or great art in the spriting section. Iocus is a nice guy, and one of the newest users to continue spriting after the first two weeks. And really, I hope we get more members who sprite, because I personally feel that the artists/programmers are the ones making the biggest impact.

matter of fact i was gonna say your name paladin

then i noticed you joined in 2012, were you even posting back then ?