you're using my oldest pic for reference. i've changed the difference in colors a bit since then.

(05-07-2014, 06:03 PM)Rhyme Wrote:

(05-07-2014, 05:40 PM)zye1984 Wrote: if i did that though, the visor would stand out less and it would only make a tiny difference in the grays. i don't like capcom's white anyway XP i don't want there to be a vast difference in colors when the colors are, in my mind, supposed to blend into one another, making a proper shadow. the white is blue hued on MMX cuz his base color was blue to begin with, i feel. = ]

that could be easily fixed by switching out the blues/reds/etc in the sprite for less 'dull' ones

overall honestly your palettes pretty dull

lazily switched to Capcoms grays
and with capcoms blues

not the best examples but i hope you can tell the difference between simply darkening and hue shifting? in yours it's VERY hard (at no zoom) to see the shading.. if you're zoomed in you can tell a lot easier but

you could also use red-gray instead, i guess, if you think it'd match more since your 'base' is mostly red (body, helmet stripe)

(05-07-2014, 06:19 PM)zye1984 Wrote: you're using my oldest pic for reference. i've changed the difference in colors a bit since then.

i'm actually using the most 'recent' post from you that has your sprite in it, so i dunno, maybe

it's still an issue throughout all of your posts i see in this thread, though, so my input remains unchanged

the armless one in the bottom left is for my reference of what's been covered by arms and such.



that would be the newest sprite with the capcom white swapped, on the right. there's not much difference, other than it being blue, which looks dumb. White is not blue, nor does it's shading need to be blue, unless there is a blue light on it. Jason's palette is dull because i wanted it that way, his colors are not vibrant. I DO need to make the red colors' hues a bit different though.

(05-07-2014, 06:26 PM)Rhyme Wrote: it's still an issue throughout all of your posts i see in this thread, though, so my input remains unchanged

MMX is a pretty tough style to emulate. I think your biggest issue is the small plates having too many shades in them. Just use one or two there. There should be as much thickness to the shades as there are on the helmet. The hands do a good job of minimal shading, so they look really good. Try to do something like that on the other small parts.

ooh, thanks! i always figured each part had to have the same amount of shades on them..now THIS helps!

though, you're not thinking the red area on the armor is shading in particular are ya? that's actually some coloring that will be expanding most likely. = ]

(05-07-2014, 06:47 PM)Midi Wrote: MMX is a pretty tough style to emulate. I think your biggest issue is the small plates having too many shades in them. Just use one or two there. There should be as much thickness to the shades as there are on the helmet. The hands do a good job of minimal shading, so they look really good. Try to do something like that on the other small parts.

Just a heads-up: we know that you want to make something detailed and not cartoonish when making this sprite. However we all know very well that if you insert many shades in a small cluster, you are not giving it detail, you are doing the opposite of it. You are blurring it.

As a tip, never use black or any dark color as background. It may make your perception of shades warped (and it did, as seen here)



Megaman looks fine with white BG still, but Jason has became really dark. It's usually good to use a neutral color, such as a faint hue-shifted gray, as BG.

The farthest leg looks abnormally thin and out of proportion even considering the perspective, and honestly his breastplate does not look detailed, but rather pillowshaded. It is failing in giving depth, and kinda looks like a boob because of it (especially in the lower sprite; the upper sprite shows it but he has that weird green belt stuff? I don't know because its clusters are poorly defined).

Your biggest problem with the colors is that you're simply using too many.
I don't care if you're trying to replicate the MMX style (which frankly isn't a good style but that's another discussion entirely) and I don't care if you don't want it to look "cartoony", you're still using too many colors. Plain and simple.

This sprite alone has NINETEEN colors in it. You probably don't need half of that.
Even if you try to use the BUT MEGAMAN HAS A LOT TOO defense, it "only" has a maximum of 15 colors in it, meaning that you've overshot by four colors that you don't need.

In addition, a lot of your issues come from the fact that you're trying to cram too many colors into too little of a space.

The helmet has four shades in it and you're trying to force them all in when you don't need them.
Compare it to the megaman sprites, which have large clusters of blue pixels and generally only use two shades per area on the helmet.

Even on the chest piece which has more colors in a smaller area, it still has bigger clusters and less randomly-placed shades.
You can clearly see that Megaman's chestpiece has the large white cluster with gray nearing the edges, while yours has a tiny white highlight with pillowshading all around since you're trying to force five shades in there.

I'm going to be blunt.
Basically, your colors are dull and ugly (you need hue shifting and contrast) and you have too many of them (it has absolutely nothing to do with "16-bit or less", your sprite is flat out bad because you're shoving too much in there).

If you want I can make an edit to show you how to fix up the issues.

.......i cant say i'm not hurt, but i'm interested in some examples. no guarantee that i'll follow them, because i feel that art is not something that suits conformity, and things that look good is dependent on the person viewing..

Just gonna throw out there that pixel art is "art," but not really

Pixel art is about effective use of palette and space to create a convincing and attractive image that standard digital mediums cant

The reason "good" pixel art looks so good is because it was created under certain guidelines and standards that most all pixel artists adhere to

From the simplest to the most elaborate of pieces, they all "follow the rules" because doing so results in better work, and results are what pixel art is all about


no one is saying you are doing a bad job, its not a bad piece
but the criticisms you've been given so far are all valid, and true

Put pride aside and listen, and trust me, you'll end up with much nicer work by the end

why can't i enjoy the way i want to do my sprites? who's to say that spriting will not evolve since the use of using the least colors possible is not an issue, since space and memory conservation isn't really needed as much anymore? Sure it's cool you can do that, but the practicality of it is nearly irrelevant now.

i'm not saying i don't think things need to change on my sprite, but i just don't think one should always follow "rules" that were set for a different age. It's just not as relevant.

and, yeah, yeah they are saying it's bad, vipershark bluntly said it's ugly.

As for my pride, i have very, VERY little pride to work with, and when i finally get a tiny spark of it only for it to be shattered completely, it get's tiresome trying anything anymore. Especially when i was finally enjoying something and feeling good about it. and it happens over and over. and over. and over.

I'll make an edit to show you the right way to do it. Give me a while and I'll get back to you.

(05-08-2014, 12:16 AM)zye1984 Wrote: why can't i enjoy the way i want to do my sprites? who's to say that spriting will not evolve since the use of using the least colors possible is not an issue, since space and memory conservation isn't really needed as much anymore? Sure it's cool you can do that, but the practicality of it is nearly irrelevant now.

i'm not saying i don't think things need to change on my sprite, but i just don't think one should always follow "rules" that were set for a different age. It's just not as relevant.

and, yeah, yeah they are saying it's bad, vipershark bluntly said it's ugly.

As for my pride, i have very, VERY little pride to work with, and when i finally get a tiny spark of it only for it to be shattered completely, it get's tiresome trying anything anymore. Especially when i was finally enjoying something and feeling good about it. and it happens over and over. and over. and over.

let's drop the colors thing, then. i agree that palette limit can be a stylistic choice.

our community has strong roots with retro-style pixel art, especially since it's been built on top of a community that strives to rip sprites from as many games as possible--most of them retro. nearly everyone here has a major influence in the form of nes, snes, and genesis pixel art styles, which range from incredibly minimalist to sort-of minimalist. as such, most of the response you'll get here comes from a long history of idolizing minimalism, simplicity, and readability, and will emphasize those qualities. with exception to readability, which is fundamental for pretty much anything if you want people to be able to understand it (and i think you've already got a grasp on that concept), the rest can be subjective.

zye, i think what you should do is let us know what things you are not going to budge on for one reason or another. if color choice or color use is not a question, maybe anatomy is fair game? adherence to a style? let us know how we can help your project without getting in the way of your motivation. as constructive critics, we want to help you make your work better, and i'm sure nobody in this thread meant to put you down at all. the last thing we want to be is outright demoralizing.

"I'll make an edit to show you the right way to do it."

........FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF >8E *bangs head on desk* that would be your PREFERRED way, not the right way. sheesh.

but thanks vipershark...i think. |: |



THANK YOU CBL, for not being so stiff on the way i want to do my sprites.

hmm..well, i've mentioned several times i don't want to change my colors, at least the majority. I do want to make the reds stand out, and i don't mind him looking dark on white, X looks too pale on white! and to be honest he's like that now b/c i was told to make the colors contrast more. i'm not too familiar with working with hues so i just darkened the grays...

Jason's head is actually made from a base of Mega Man 8's fat head, so so are the "pillowing" effects on the helmet. I don't think i'm actually pillowing on the armor, it's just i used too many shades and the light source is from the "viewer," up and to the center left. Midi's statement will help me; I thought i should fit all the colors in the different areas to show the shading, but it's too much to fit all there.

his anatomy is not clear atm b/c he's not in motion. ...i went and messed up the stance i wanted for him b/c gor mentioned the left leg was too far down, so that meant widening out the leg to make it appear its going toward the viewer. I didn't want that at all. I need to send my photos of my MMX figure i have for reference; i have him in the position i wanted to use.

i may have gone overboard with depth..which is funny, i generally dislike over exaggerating such. it's just that, i wanted him to be a specific size in idle stance. if i made his feet be mostly flat on a line, he'd be rather tall b/c of his body size. i'd rather think of his standing plane as an elliptical circle rather than a line, it gives a better idea of what i'm going for.

so, to get to the point and answer your question, i'm not really sure. telling me to be a minimalist is definitely not what i want, but making it more efficient might. I plan on using the visor colors for some metal pieces, as my goal for that was a gun-metal blue. that's one thing that i will NOT budge on, that visor.

I'm definitely going to need help on his gun..

my main goal in this is to fit him with a moveset i made for smash bros. i had to stop that project b/c i needed visuals; numbers and hypothesis' will only go so far. the other goal was to make the lighting be more..true during movement. a lot of sprites the light moves with their parts, instead of the sprite moving in the light. so in other words, i'm making it harder on myself for no reason!

(05-08-2014, 12:35 AM)Crappy Blue Luigi Wrote: let's drop the colors thing, then. i agree that palette limit can be a stylistic choice.

our community has strong roots with retro-style pixel art, especially since it's been built on top of a community that strives to rip sprites from as many games as possible--most of them retro. nearly everyone here has a major influence in the form of nes, snes, and genesis pixel art styles, which range from incredibly minimalist to sort-of minimalist. as such, most of the response you'll get here comes from a long history of idolizing minimalism, simplicity, and readability, and will emphasize those qualities. with exception to readability, which is fundamental for pretty much anything if you want people to be able to understand it (and i think you've already got a grasp on that concept), the rest can be subjective.

zye, i think what you should do is let us know what things you are not going to budge on for one reason or another. if color choice or color use is not a question, maybe anatomy is fair game? adherence to a style? let us know how we can help your project without getting in the way of your motivation. as constructive critics, we want to help you make your work better, and i'm sure nobody in this thread meant to put you down at all. the last thing we want to be is outright demoralizing.

---

oh! one thing i can't for the life of me figure out; his neck is supposed to be white, but the light source is coming from above, so it gets grayed, blending in with his helmet. how can i fix that? x-x the only way i see how is to keep it red. = \

Do you have a reference image for this character that I can see?

here's basically the reason why the reds are dull. Jason's colors have never been really vibrant. I know that's Roddy, but what i'm doing here [also] is mixing all the iterations of the hero of Meta Fight into one. i'm wondering if i should make another red for the armor/helmet/etc areas, as the red on the suit is more like a faded leather. or split the red into two kind of hues. i really did choose the colors on purpose. o-o still though, some hues should change.