(07-01-2014, 07:10 AM)E-Man Wrote:

(06-30-2014, 08:13 PM)megaMasquerain Wrote: Well, any stealth level in an action/puzzle/rpg game, but mostly that one.

I would rather do the Water Temple twice than do the stealth mission in Hyrule Castle. Stealth missions where I can't do much about the guards and I fail the instant I get seen are very stressful to me. It's a little better in the Gerudo Fortress because I could knockout the guards, but the threat of getting captured on sight gets on my nerves.

I'm glad that the Deku Palace stealth mission has a line of sight I could use to make sure I don't get caught and the Stone Mask exists for people like me.

My main complaint with the console Zelda games (and a big reason why I've never beaten one: ) Why are there stealth levels in -every. one.- This isn't Metal Triforce Solid for crying out loud

(07-01-2014, 12:39 AM)puggsoy Wrote: The Temple of the Ocean King in LoZ: Phantom Hourglass. Technically not a level but obnoxious as hell, simply due to the fact that you have to redo a lot of it, and there's only one shortcut portal.

Oh right I forgot about that thing. Phantom Hourglass is actually the one Zelda game I've never completed for this very reason.

The Temple of the Ocean King is quite possibly the worst part of any Zelda game ever. Dragging stealth mission + finicky time mechanic + cheap puzzles = horrible, horrible design.

I got so far into that game, too. Then, near the end, I find out you have to go through that goddamn temple again to reach the final stretch... hah, yeah, fuck that.

If it's one thing the Temple of the Ocean King does right (and the same could be said for the Tower of Spirits), it's actually making stealth missions a lot less stressful. Not only do you get to see the line of sight of the Phantoms, but also it's easier to manipulate them however you want (the boomerang is my tool of choice in sections like these). To top it all off, you don't get caught the moment you're seen. Instead, you are given a chance to escape the Phantoms before they whack you with their swords by evading them or going into a safe zone.

You have a point, in terms of stealth missions it's probably one of the best I've seen. The hourglass itself made it more stressful than necessary though, I'm glad Spirit Tracks fixed that.

That temple is the biggest flaw in PH, but if you actually have the persistence to finish it I found that it's quite rewarding. The final boss is pretty good, and I really enjoyed battling its final form. Not to mention the story ending, and just the satisfaction of having completed the game.

(07-01-2014, 07:10 AM)E-Man Wrote: They thankfully fixed that problem in Spirit Tracks, so going to the main temple to unlock some points becomes a lot less tedious.

Sadly, the game has it's own flaws that stress me out a lot, such as the limited warping abilities (even though I know why they would do such a thing) and the Bomb Trains.

Spirit Tracks did fix it nicely (and in my opinion all other flaws PH had too). I was a little bit disappointed that the tower still had phantoms that are pretty much exactly the same, but the new mechanics (including a really significant one I won't spoil for those who haven't played) still make it interesting.

I thought the warping was fine, and much better than PH's. Remembering which leads where isn't super easy but that's what map marking is for. Also the evil trains (including those that can turn around) weren't really that bad, they're usually quite easy to avoid and if you have one behind you it'll leave you alone if you just move out of its circuit.

The only thing that really stressed me out is that cave monster that chases you. The first few times is OK, but when you're delivering Black Ore you have to do it perfectly or you'll lose half of it. Fortunately that's only an optional side-quest.

Quote:Spirit Tracks did fix it nicely (and in my opinion all other flaws PH had too).

Except for the very most important one - Controlling Link and his sword with the stylus.

Quote:The only thing that really stressed me out is that cave monster that chases you. The first few times is OK, but when you're delivering Black Ore you have to do it perfectly or you'll lose half of it. Fortunately that's only an optional side-quest.

You know you can kill it and then do the delivery.

(07-01-2014, 07:40 PM)AuraLancer Wrote:

Quote:Spirit Tracks did fix it nicely (and in my opinion all other flaws PH had too).

Except for the very most important one - Controlling Link and his sword with the stylus.

I still don't get what people dislike about this. I think it's a very well implemented way of using the touch screen, it seems a bit weird at first but I quickly got accustomed and comfortable with it. Everyone has their preferences of course, but I personally don't see much wrong with it.

(07-01-2014, 07:40 PM)AuraLancer Wrote:

Quote:The only thing that really stressed me out is that cave monster that chases you. The first few times is OK, but when you're delivering Black Ore you have to do it perfectly or you'll lose half of it. Fortunately that's only an optional side-quest.

You know you can kill it and then do the delivery.

Really? I'm pretty sure it's there every time you go through the cave, at least with Dark Ore. All these answers seem to agree.

The third answer in that link talks about killing the big bug beforehand.

Also, the problem I have with the stylus controls is that they are far from perfect, even after you've mastered them. Combat is just a chore. I'm fine with the items using the stylus, most of them are pretty creative and fun but Link and his sword should have just stuck with the d pad and buttons.

(07-01-2014, 06:48 PM)puggsoy Wrote: I thought the warping was fine, and much better than PH's. Remembering which leads where isn't super easy but that's what map marking is for. Also the evil trains (including those that can turn around) weren't really that bad, they're usually quite easy to avoid and if you have one behind you it'll leave you alone if you just move out of its circuit.

I still don't like warping in the game because it's so limited compared to other Zelda games. In Phantom Hourglass, you have the liberty of warping to any of the set locations no matter where you are on the ocean. In this game, however, they act more like warp tunnels (such as the ones from Ocarina of Time) than the warps I'm used to. If I could at least warp to any of the open warp locations from a single warp location, that would be a lot less stressful. I know they did it like this to make deliveries with your train far more challenging, but I still don't like it.

I know that the Bomb Trains are not as bad as I make them out to be, but the threat of instant game over in a video game is always terrifying to me.

I suppose you've got a point, neither of those really bothered me though.

(07-02-2014, 07:41 AM)AuraLancer Wrote: The third answer in that link talks about killing the big bug beforehand.

Looks like I didn't read that one properly. I must have mixed up memories of the little guys being there with the big monster also having to be present. Even so, getting the Dark Ore there with less than one hit isn't easy.

The controls might not be perfect, but I think going with the d-pad exclusively for moving and sword controls might have made it worse. Having to switch between the buttons for sword and stylus for other items would have been a hassle, and putting the items as buttons isn't really an option since the touch functionality is what makes them so unique and interesting. And since pretty much everything else in the game demands touch screen attention (firing the cannon, drawing on the map, etc), it would've been really weird to move him and attack without it. I think making it all touch controlled was just the most logical choice and honestly the best one they could have made.

And to be honest I didn't really mind the combat, swiping and tapping isn't much different than the locking feature in OoT and using B or A. If anything it's a bit less bothersome since you can't accidentally lock onto the wrong guy, and sometimes you can even hit multiple enemies in one swipe.
Then again, I've always been a big fan of the top-down LoZ games so I might just prefer the view and I put up with the controls