(04-15-2015, 01:40 AM)Zac Wrote: Nintendo doesn't really seem to understand the character that Rare reimagined Donkey Kong to be, as simple as it might seem, as they choose to hardily give him motivation at all while homogenizing him in there special Nintendo way and giving him the worst voice ever.

... Donkey Kong never really had much motivation beyond "I want that/they took my stuff/they're blowing up my home" and that continues in the new DKC games so... I mean, he's a gorilla. I don't know what kind of motivation he needs.

His new voice isn't as great as Grant Kirkhope's though. It was cheesy but delightfully so. "HEY YEEEEAAAAHHH COOOOOOOOOOL OH-KEYH"

Well he's right that Nintendo doesn't seem to know his personality very well. He's either a hotheaded wild ape, a show-offy machoman, or a simple fun-loving goofball.

They juggle between these personalities between developers.

(04-15-2015, 02:00 AM)Zero Kirby Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 01:40 AM)Zac Wrote: Nintendo doesn't really seem to understand the character that Rare reimagined Donkey Kong to be, as simple as it might seem, as they choose to hardily give him motivation at all while homogenizing him in there special Nintendo way and giving him the worst voice ever.

... Donkey Kong never really had much motivation beyond "I want that/they took my stuff/they're blowing up my home" and that continues in the new DKC games so... I mean, he's a gorilla. I don't know what kind of motivation he needs.

His new voice isn't as great as Grant Kirkhope's though. It was cheesy but delightfully so. "HEY YEEEEAAAAHHH COOOOOOOOOOL OH-KEYH"

There's more to motivation than the simple objective behind it. Like uh in dkc you don't just see the character angry and ready for action, he's pretty genuinely disappointed looking when you go into the banana hoard and sees it empty.  Not in a comically exaggerated way either (at least intentionally from how it comes off).  Even if the characters an animal, he's still a personified animal and little touches like that make it seem like the objective actually hold some weight beyond its literal interpretation

also I'd say the new voice seems ignorant to the point of being distracting as to what might resonate with audiences but I guess that's pretty subjective

(04-15-2015, 02:30 AM)Zac Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 02:00 AM)Zero Kirby Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 01:40 AM)Zac Wrote: Nintendo doesn't really seem to understand the character that Rare reimagined Donkey Kong to be, as simple as it might seem, as they choose to hardily give him motivation at all while homogenizing him in there special Nintendo way and giving him the worst voice ever.

... Donkey Kong never really had much motivation beyond "I want that/they took my stuff/they're blowing up my home" and that continues in the new DKC games so... I mean, he's a gorilla. I don't know what kind of motivation he needs.

His new voice isn't as great as Grant Kirkhope's though. It was cheesy but delightfully so. "HEY YEEEEAAAAHHH COOOOOOOOOOL OH-KEYH"

There's more to motivation than the simple objective behind it. Like uh in dkc you don't just see the character angry and ready for action, he's pretty genuinely disappointed looking when you go into the banana hoard and sees it empty.  Not in a comically exaggerated way either (at least intentionally from how it comes off).  Even if the characters an animal, he's still a personified animal and little touches like that make it seem like the objective actually hold some weight beyond its literal interpretation

also I'd say the new voice seems ignorant to the point of being distracting as to what might resonate with audiences but I guess that's pretty subjective

I see what you mean. But they still get across DK's emotions in the newer DKC games. He has different reactions to the various boss fellows as he encounters them and is visibly upset when he sees his banana hoard stolen or has his birthday party ruined. I haven't played any of the inbetween games like Jungle Beat so maybe they didn't really do that great a job in those games, but Retro's done good with the character and series.

In Jungle Beat he comes off as sort of macho and show-offy. He's often striking muscular poses and flashing his pearly whites at the screen. He's like freaking Gaston in that game.

I really like that game though (more than DKC3 even) - if it wasn't for the weird control scheme, it would be a 10/10 game

I give it 7.8/10 too much bongos

---

btw I really want to play the new DKC games, they look hella tight and shit

Yeah I love Jungle Beat too. Its a great game but blatantly disregards everything in the DKC franchise.

I don't think it's a bad thing, it's kinda like Donkey Kong's SMB2: a completely different game with an entirely different universe. DK still grabs bananas, is cool, beats up enemies and moves around in a really smooth fashion (disregarding the bongos) while the enemies and settings are different.

I wouldn't mind if there was a Jungle Beat 2, with the same gameplay style, but playable in a more traditional controller scheme and featuring the classic enemies along with the new enemies (reptiles, totems, norse animals etc). I really loved the combo system in that game and how you needed to get more and more bananas. It was so rewarding.

In my opinion, I don't care about DK64 because of all the things I said in Sonic's thread: 3D is more about exploring, while 2D is tight platforming. And I, for one, prefer tight platforming for DK. Different tastes.

(04-13-2015, 07:17 AM)Gors Wrote: I think it's worthy to note that in Japan, the popular aesthetic is still the 'kawaii' - that means, cute characters.

So you're telling me... this DK design would make him a hit in Japan..


Time to go full throttle Donkey kong: Idol Edition (Shin Megami Tensei x Donkey Kong?)

DK64, the Retro games, and even Jungle Beat, suit DK's appearance much more than the first Country game. You see DK do much more than just tossing barrels, rolling, and jumping on enemies in those titles. Buuuut, then again, that comparison's pretty overkill; I'm comparing a primitive '90s sidescroller to slightly more advanced ones.

I'm playing as a big badass tough-as-nails gorilla; seeing this "king of the jungle" dying in one hit to a bunch of lame beavers, birds, and snakes sorta sells him short.

Just want to interject there and say in the most classic DK game, you just see him throw barrels, climb a ladder with Pauline and stand there.

(04-16-2015, 11:42 AM)TomGuycott Wrote: Just want to interject there and say in the most classic DK game, you just see him throw barrels, climb a ladder with Pauline and stand there.

And yet he was one of the most innovative characters in platforming in that appearance, with his in game graphics describing narrative in one of the earliest examples for the genre.


As for DK's newer appearances (and I'm using tropical freeze as my main frame of reference here), this making him a tough guy thing really feels like it takes away from his characterization.  Situations were the characters might of previously been visibly and comically scared or depressed now just hit this stale note where they are all indignantly mad when they approach a boss, and it makes games like tropical freeze (which I think is really well done over all) very predictable in terms of characterization in  a bad way.  I think that extends a bit to the enemies as well, most of them hitting one flat note in situations were they might of came off more ambiguous and neutral before.  And this might not take away from DK as a character specifically so much if all the other kongs didn't act almost the exact same as him now (with the only differences in their disposition being slightly different expressions before they shift to the same determined death stare)


It may seem strange to compare really advanced games to DKC 1 or something in terms of characterization, but even though theres only a few animations to really draw from for DK or Diddy's character originally they paint very intentionally different characters complemented by the limitations of the game they exist in.  I think those singular and simple traits that go into good cartoon characters, that were necessary even for the original donkey kong or dkc to communicate anything given their limitations, are sort of lost in the huge and almost limitless cgi endeavors that we see with the new dk games.

To be fair, Tropical Freeze is like... the ninth or tenth time these characters have punched their way through an army of baddies. I imagine there's only so long that can go on before they start becoming much more confident overall.

That argument's no good...
If your idea of character development is to make everyone boring and homogenized, then that's just wrong.

It's not even like everyone in real life would react to that situation in the same way, so if it's not more realistic and it's not more fun, then what's the point?

Not to mention, continuity seems so unimportant to these games anyway. You could see the same character act scared of the enemies (for example) after fighting them a hundred times and not think anything of it. It's not even clear which fights are canon to a particular game, and cartoon characters are simplified enough that it's not weird to give them a particular trait and hold them to it anyway.

Imagine if Luigi suddenly wasn't a coward and acted exactly like Mario. You might think it was cool at first, but in the long run he'd lose all individuality and appeal. Characterization is really important to cartoon guys like this

(04-16-2015, 11:23 AM)Pik Wrote:

(04-13-2015, 07:17 AM)Gors Wrote: I think it's worthy to note that in Japan, the popular aesthetic is still the 'kawaii' - that means, cute characters.

So you're telling me... this DK design would make him a hit in Japan..


Time to go full throttle Donkey kong: Idol Edition (Shin Megami Tensei x Donkey Kong?)

Does anyone else see this?