Um... There is no way to truly tell if Ryu or Roy are overpowered yet at all. They came out two days ago and no one has had time to adapt, also tourney results speak for these things. The people that need nerfs are Sheik and Rosalina. That's IT. Nintendo needs to get out of the mindset that nerfing people into ground meat is the best option, because all it does is make the characters less fun as well as make a lot of the cast STILL go unused because the characters who actually need HELP are left unchanged.

That said, they did well this patch. If you go to Smashboards or r/smashbros, people have compiled lists of what they've found out changed in this patch (because this company is too archaic for patch notes). Falco and Charizard are characters with huge problems that made them just abysmal to play, they've both been buffed. Apparently Falco's NAir is now the combo tool he needed because it has a vacuum windbox, Charizard's downthrow was weakened to let it combo as well as its upthrow now being the most powerful upthrow option in the history of Smash (sorry Mewtwo).

A lot of other bad characters were touched up too slightly. Yay~ Zelda's upsmash kills 20% earlier, Samus and Link's upsmash are less easy to escape with DI!

Also I wouldn't say Sonic is a bit decent in this game, he's actually considered busted, trailing up there with the likes of Diddy, Luigi, Ness, Pikachu, Rosalina, and Sheik... Kind of above the what people are considering the high-mid tiers at this point (Mario, Captain Falcon, Villager, Pit, Pitoo...etc)


EDIT:
https://gfycat.com/SpitefulPinkCockerspaniel#

Oh my lord, Roy has only made it apparent how borderline useless Marth is in this game. What they did to Marth in Smash 4 should be a sin... Fucking... Dagger...

I kicked this one Roy's ass in FG with buffed Falco. I'm really interested in seeing where Falco is in the tier lists now because he feels so much better after the last patch.

(06-16-2015, 01:57 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: https://gfycat.com/SpitefulPinkCockerspaniel#

Oh my lord, Roy has only made it apparent how borderline useless Marth is in this game. What they did to Marth in Smash 4 should be a sin... Fucking... Dagger...

This is why I see Marth as fighter that is meant to get up close to opponents then attacking them. (And personally from experience Marth's dash attacks and side B work well for this kind of thing, and clever use of counter does actually produce results if you know when to use it.)

I've managed to beat Roy a few times using Marth since the DLC came out just like that. Roy is really more about power and Marth is more about speed just in comparison with the two, if done right then you really shouldn't have a problem beating Roy as Marth.

Roy is faster than Marth and generally has a lot less lag on his moves. His sourspot is even more rewarding than Marth's too. He's just Marth but not bad, I dunno about their specific matchup but when it comes to the rest of the cast vs Marth it just ain't pretty for him.

i just want me melee marth, where attacks actually lead into combos and grabs matter :'^ )

Um, those fake Young Link and Pichu trophies that have been floating around the last few days, who originally made them? (At least I'm 99% sure they're faked. A shame, a small part of me did kind of want them to happen, even with Y.Link having a moveset change.)

Pichu and Young Link fake trophies pop up.

Pichu and Young Link Become DLC after everyone just thinks of it as a rumor.

Something something Pichu Little Mac photoshop

Little Mac photoshop? Ok, I've missed something here.

I'd laugh if Pichu and Young Link did become DLC in response to the faked images.

Ohhhh boy! That godly Little Mac player's cooked something up, presenting the first actually good Ryu to exist!

I KNEW he'd suit his playstyle like a fucking glove...

So I've been thinking about Final Smashes and how they are implemented... Poorly. A floating annoying random item. I always wanted Final Smashes to be something better than an item.

I thought about how Little Mac has a power meter to unleash like a mini Final Smash. That's perfect! What if everyone had a little meter like that? Filling it up meant it was Final Smash time!

Also Ryu has shown me, why have one Final Smash? Two? Nope. Make it THREE! Yes every character has three Final Smashes assigned to B, B-Side, and B-Down. This should add a lot of variety.

For example...

Mario's Final Smashes
B Standard: Giant Hammer
Mario swings a giant Hammer that is devastating to anyone in front of him.
B Side: Mario Finale
Unleash a swirling wave of flames that shoots across the screen.
B Down: White Tanooki
Mario transforms into the invinsible White Tanooki from Super Mario 3D Land/World. He can fly around by jumping and swing his tail. Simply touching him will do damage but a swipe from the tail is fatal!

Kirby's Final Smashes
B Standard: Ultra Sword
Unleash a giant Sword from Return to Dreamland and slice nearby foes.
B Side: Monster Flame
Kirby shoots a giant flaming dragon for Returns to Dreamland that blasts across the stage.
B Down: Cook
Don a chef hat and suck opponents into a pot for cooking.

I'm impressed Koopaul. With you at the helm, the development cycle of Smash Bros would take at LEAST 14 years. A new record.



In all seriousness though, those ideas definitely aren't resonating with me, for these reasons:

-The Smash Ball floats around randomly because it forces the players to approach it while also interact with each other, forcing them to fight for it. Having it stationary makes it an easy pick-up to the person it appeared beside.

-The Power Meter exists as a homage to the actual Punch Out power meter, and either removing it or giving it to other players makes it feel less of an homage and makes Little Mac seem less original.

-The main reason Ryu has two Final Smashes is that in Street Fighter games, after a certain point characters would be given two ultra moves a piece. There was a time when you had to select just one before going into a fight, but one of the most recent iterations of Street Fighter IV allowed two to be used.

-Like I mentioned before, adding so many final smashes for each character, while not difficult to conceptualize, especially for characters with an abundance of moves, mythos and gadgetry to choose from, would add months and months to development time PER character. This would be pretty redundant too, seeing that as it stands, there is maybe 2 characters who have original Final Smashes. All others recycle either functionality or execution.

I'm glad it's Sakurai who is in charge of SSB because of this

So who else here forgets that Ryu won't auto correct his direction and you almost Whirlwind Kick off the stage instead of a Hadoken?

Good times.

Seriously though, ryu is awesome.

Quote:-The Smash Ball floats around randomly because it forces the players to approach it while also interact with each other, forcing them to fight for it. Having it stationary makes it an easy pick-up to the person it appeared beside.

But still not suitable for competitive play. I want Final Smashes to be integrated in a competitive match.

Quote:-The Power Meter exists as a homage to the actual Punch Out power meter, and either removing it or giving it to other players makes it feel less of an homage and makes Little Mac seem less original.

Oh please. Look at characters like Captain Falcon who have such a basic moveset. Why does every new character need a unique gimmick? Especially Little Mac. He's already unique enough in that he's terrible in the air and a monster on the ground.

Quote:-The main reason Ryu has two Final Smashes is that in Street Fighter games, after a certain point characters would be given two ultra moves a piece. There was a time when you had to select just one before going into a fight, but one of the most recent iterations of Street Fighter IV allowed two to be used.

Yes yes I knew that. But what I'm saying, is if a DLC character can have two Final Smashes, why not everyone?

Quote:-Like I mentioned before, adding so many final smashes for each character, while not difficult to conceptualize, especially for characters with an abundance of moves, mythos and gadgetry to choose from, would add months and months to development time PER character. This would be pretty redundant too, seeing that as it stands, there is maybe 2 characters who have original Final Smashes. All others recycle either functionality or execution.

You just pointed out why it WON'T take months to do. All Final Smashes boil down to four different kinds...
-A close up pummeling
-A large beam or blast of some sort
-Something that makes an area on the stage hazardous
-And a super transformation

Because of this, it shouldnt take as long as you think it would. A lot of character even share the exact same Final Smash! Also, how do you know how long it takes to make a Final Smash? Final Smashes don't have the same complexities as normal moves do. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they were one of the more easier parts of a characters moveset.

But why do I even want more than one Final Smash? I noticed that depending on certain factors (stage size, number of plays) , a character's Final Smash may be incredibly useful or completely useless. I wanted to give the player some flexibility with their super moves. Many times playing as Jigglypuff and having the Smash Ball on Palutena's Temple and people were saying "What a waste, I wish she did something else."