(06-24-2015, 11:17 AM)Koopaul Wrote: Okay then. Do that. Make it so that you lose a Final Smash if you get hit. Make it so that Final Smashes are difficult to land... Some of them already are.

By doing that, both Little Mac and literally EVERY Final Smash loses any charm they once had.

Your idea seems to be geared towards making Final Smashes a part of competitive play, but they aren't really geared towards that. By nature, the FSes are imbalanced, over the top and overpowered for fun, and having them be just a portion of regular moves with the game how it is now is just pointless.

Every suggestion you've been making over the past two days has been geared towards making Smash more like different fighting games... but then it becomes less like Smash and more like it's trying to copycat those games instead.


Also Iceman, that combo video is sick as hell.

Multiple Final Smashes:

Instead of multiple FS's being available at a moment's notice, why not just have Final Smashes be a customizable special move? That would give players the choice between (for example) Negative Zone or Poltergust 5000 without blind-siding their opponent in seriously destructive ways. It would also allow the developers to add as many or as few FS as they feel a character needs.

(06-24-2015, 11:43 AM)Kriven Wrote: Multiple Final Smashes:

Instead of multiple FS's being available at a moment's notice, why not just have Final Smashes be a customizable special move? That would give players the choice between (for example) Negative Zone or Poltergust 5000 without blind-siding their opponent in seriously destructive ways. It would also allow the developers to add as many or as few FS as they feel a character needs.

This seems like the direction Smash is more geared toward, to be honest, though I don't think they are ready to implement that in this generation of games.

(06-24-2015, 11:17 AM)Koopaul Wrote: For shits and giggles, let's add a mechanic to something I don't know anything about. We could give everyone the mechanic that's unique to another because it's apart of his game, water then down to where they lose the main reason they had in the first place, or add some criteria that doesn't address the problem that FS shouldn't be in competitive play or the fact they would ruin the competitive scene more than Sakurai could intentionally. 

This is what I'm getting from you, Koopaul. Final Smashes won't work in competitive and its a pretty stupid idea in general. Competitive smash is what I do. Trust me on this. You're out of your element, Donnie.

You don't do jack shit, you're just some scrub stuck in the 90's maining Pikachu and Kirby

(06-24-2015, 02:11 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: You don't do jack shit, you're just some scrub stuck in the 90's maining Pikachu and Kirby

Don't try to start with me, you Trash 4 playing fuccboi. Atleast my game has combos and the lead player isn't some sniveling kid with a goofy ass scarf that whines about everything.

Also I'm a Puff main, get it right kek

The problem is you competitive Smash people are too shallow to understand that there is more ways to play the game than your elite standard. And by more ways I mean more than two. More than just "Competitive" or "For Fun". Its not binary, not black and white, not that simple. Theres a whole gradient of competitiveness. And that those ways of playing deserve the same time and consideration as your way.

Let me ask you something Sportoise, have you ever played a match with items on and ever thought, " Something needs to be fixed here".

Probably not, because who cares, right? It doesn't affect the elite way to play the game and therefore doesn't need fixing. The only thing that needs patches, time, scrutiny, etc is Competitive Smash because everything thing else is just nonsense.

And the sad thing is I feel Sakurai sees things the same way. Look at how overboard he went with the Pyrosphere. But hey, its just "for fun" so I can go as crazy as I want with these things!

Why is it that no one cares to do something new and unique with these elements? Why can't they be fine tuned for semicompetitive play?

I see myself as open minded. I wouldn't do anything to ruin your way of playing Smash which is why I'm asking you all questions on what would work. But at the same time you guys don't even bat an eye to other ways of playing. That indeed, Final Smashes can and should be implimented better in the gameplay. Of course you could have the option of turning them off, just like items.

A quick comparison for you Koopaul about other games' examples of super attacks and why Smash's current Final Smashes aren't really appropriate for competitive play outside of those where items are allowed:

Regular fighting game super attacks, whether it be Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear or what have you, the attacks can either be blocked (usually at the cost of chip damage while blocking, another feature that isn't really doable given the nature of Smash's current shielding mechanic), or attacks that cannot be blocked are either heavily telegraphed or require you to be directly on top of your opponent.

The majority of Final Smashes, while in most cases able to be dodged mainly due to the massive amount of size in a Smash stage compared to a normal fighting game, cannot be blocked, and in some cases are even difficult to dodge. As far as I know, I don't think there's any Final Smash that does damage that can be blocked (for long at least) by a shield. Lots of Final Smashes don't leave room for dodging either.

But there is a semicompetitive element to it. And if there is a semicompetitive element then it does need balancing and a proper way to be used.

See guys there's a word I'd like to use, its called flexibility. Is this character/stage/item flexible enough for different types of play?

Think about Little Mac. He's a great character... For Glory. But what if we had Board the Platforms back? What if someone wanted to play a match on Yoshi's Wooly World stage?

See he's not flexible. He's designed to be good at one thing. But the problem is Smash is not supposed to be one thing. It's many things that fluctuate.

(06-24-2015, 02:40 PM)Koopaul Wrote: The problem is you competitive Smash people are too shallow to understand that there is more ways to play the game than your elite standard.

Lmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooooooo, Koopaul dude what's happened to you lately man. This sounds like something I'd read on gamefaqs.

(06-24-2015, 02:40 PM)Koopaul Wrote: "Something needs to be fixed here".

-Assuming because we play competitively we also can't play laid back with items every now and then
-Assuming we haven't criticized Smash 4 in a variety of ways (me especially) in this thread's entire lifespan
-Assuming because we didn't like your idea in particular, we're elitists

-Turning around to bash the very audience you presented your idea to in general when they present reasons as to why your idea might not work, considering they have a lot of experience with these things



Final Smashes are not the same things as Supers, and no matter how much you dumb them down (unless to the point of them not being special anymore) they just do not function as well in the Smash 4mat

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(06-24-2015, 02:34 PM)Sportoise Wrote: Don't try to start with me, you Trash 4 playing fuccboi. Atleast my game has combos and the lead player isn't some sniveling kid with a goofy ass scarf that whines about everything.

I don't play that Smash 4 Children game or that 0% To Free Death: Glass Shields Edition bullshit you do. Come out of that Isai tent you're hiding behind so I can multi-shine your stupid up-tilt spamming ass.

I didnt say you guys didnt play with items on/on stages with gimmicks, I said you didn't take it seriously. Like it doesn't matter what happens or who wins in a match with items on. Like you said "laid back" as if you don't even try or care.

The only things I ever see you critisize in Smash and want changed has to do with competitive Smash. I've never read any critiques and changes you want that involve items or Final Smashes. Because, again, those things don't truly matter to you. When you play with those things its turn-off-your-brain time.

Final Smashes are too powerful and impact the game too much, it'd only bother people if they were adapted to a less random standard that relied on building meter. Even if you nerf them, their change on the formula is too huge... which makes another problem. It becomes gimmicky. Little Mac only has this because he really REALLY needs it.

Items themselves can't even be considered unless they lose their RNG spawning algorithm that's just... so abysmal. Even then, 64 had the most balanced and unimpeding item set in the series, if that's what you wanted to hear from me. I think Smash 4 made most items way too powerful and complicated, they're better when basic because they require more thought, input, and perhaps even skill from the player.


EDIT: Also I have no idea how you got "too shallow to understand" from "not interested, no thanks".

Speaking of ridiculous items that would make me get ridiculously frustrated if I attempted to take item smash seriously, screw Gust Bellows. That thing blows.

On the other hand I'd love if there was some non-random way to grab an N64 beamsword, that shit was so great to throw, pickup, and combo with

Edit: wait... was that a p-

(06-24-2015, 05:01 PM)Shade Wrote: Speaking of ridiculous items that would make me get ridiculously frustrated if I attempted to take item smash seriously, screw Gust Bellows. That thing blows.

That opinion is a breath of fresh air.