That doesn't mean they couldn't support Dragon Quest more with this. They've slapped every single Dragon Quest game since 4 on DS, with 7 and 8 making their way to 3DS pretty soon as well. Heck, DQ9 was the 10th game Famitsu ever gave a 40/40. For most of those, it was the first time they made it to the US market. Dragon Quest 10 is an MMO on the Wii. They appeared in Fortune Street.

Nah. If they wanted to add a Dragon Quest person, why not? It just sounds like Koh's argument is that a DQ character should be added instead of Cloud, which I disagree with.

I'm not saying Cloud can't be in, I'm saying DQ is closer to Nintendo than FF is, and would've seemed much less random than Cloud. Just as popular of an RPG series, so they'd be covering all bases, while still going towards something that just screams Nintendo. Either way, it would still be nice to see them represent the most influential RPG series somehow.

(11-13-2015, 09:40 PM)Kriven Wrote: I'm not saying Dragon Quest isn't a major franchise, though.

I'm saying it's not Final Fantasy. It's never going to be. As much depth as there might be to Dragon Quest, and as awesome as its characters could be, and as influential as the franchise has been on its genre, it's pretty much always going to be in Final Fantasy's shadow. None of its protagonists will be able to hold a candle to Cloud, because Cloud is really the first video game protagonist to be taken seriously. FF7 didn't make waves when it launched; it made tsunamis.

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(11-13-2015, 09:36 PM)psychospacecow Wrote: Also true just on the fact that literally no one would know who Roy was if it wasn't for Smash Bros. If I'm not mistaken, his first appearance in a US release was Fire Emblem Awakening.

You're again comparing a Nintendo-owned property to an outside property. In this case, Roy and Marth were included in Smash Bros. for marketing purposes: Roy for his own game in Japan (which was a stipulation, actually--Sakurai had to include Roy if he wanted Marth, or IS wouldn't allow it), and the duo to strike up interest in the United States.

If we compare legacy-for-legacy, most of the Nintendo characters should be replaced with Frogger, Bomberman, Belmont, Earthworm Jim, Crash Bandicoot, Lara Croft, Master Chief, and Spyro... but it is still a Nintendo celebration first, and an industry celebration second.

I'm talking about Dragon Quest man. Whether or not its a Nintendo character at this point is irrelevant because this is about Cloud in Smash, and you said that the casual market wouldn't recognize something so it wouldn't work. Literally no one knew who Roy was. Going by the same criteria, there's very few kids who knew what MegaMan was until he was announced in Smash. Duck Hunt is only notable for pissing people off and the light gun.

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(11-13-2015, 09:52 PM)Kriven Wrote: Nah. If they wanted to add a Dragon Quest person, why not? It just sounds like Koh's argument is that a DQ character should be added instead of Cloud, which I disagree with.

Ah, in that case, I find it stranger that they didn't but by all means, throw Cloud in there.

(11-13-2015, 06:38 PM)Koh Wrote: Goku is just as much a video game character as he is an anime character.  He fills both roles.  There are way too many Dragon Ball/Z games for him to NOT be a video game character.  He's not PURELY a video game character, but he IS a video game character.  That can't be argued.

I think that most fans of his series would say that the games are ABOUT him rather than him being a video game character. You don't see John Madden being called a video game character, and there's a new games about football every year. In fact, that game has people forming lines straight out of a mall for it. I once got to go straight to the front of one of those lines because nobody in the real world gives a shit about the games I like (I believe it was Mega Man ZX that particular time).

Anyway, one very VERY big factor that would probably prevent Anime characters from meshing well into a Smash Bros game is the fact that many video game characters are first inspired by Anime, and vice versa. Mega Man was inspired by Astro Boy, Lucario shares abilities and Ryu shares abilities and character traits with Goku, Guts from berserk, while awesome, would be overshadowed by the fact that big sword users like Ike and Cloud already exist (He'd even have similarities to Cloud's limit break, although instead of magically getting stronger when a bar fills up he's just actually slowly going more and more insane).

While I doubt it's impossible for Anime characters to eventually wriggle their way into smash, there has been two rules that have yet to be broken as stated by Sakurai himself, and until he outright says "Fuck it", I assume these will continue to stand true:

1. The character must have originated in a Video game. Not anime, not TV, not comics, not the real world.

2. They must have appeared on a Nintendo console. As evidenced by Cloud, even a cameo role can count.

3. We'll see.

And that's all.

(11-13-2015, 09:58 PM)psychospacecow Wrote: I'm talking about Dragon Quest man. Whether or not its a Nintendo character at this point is irrelevant because this is about Cloud in Smash, and you said that the casual market wouldn't recognize something so it wouldn't work. Literally no one knew who Roy was. Going by the same criteria, there's very few kids who knew what MegaMan was until he was announced in Smash. Duck Hunt is only notable for pissing people off and the light gun.

Except that whether a character is Nintendo or not totally isn't irrelevant, because you keep bringing up Nintendo characters in a Nintendo game. Third-party representatives are judged on an entirely different metric.

"There's very few kids who know Mega Man" this line of thinking keeps popping up, and it just isn't true. Mega Man never went away. Also, we aren't judging these characters exclusively on what kids know about them... otherwise we would have Stealth Elf or some other Skylander representing things. This is about a character's status as a multi-generational icon. Mega Man's games continue to sell and continue to appeal to a wide demographic, just like Sonic. Cloud, despite really only mattering to one single game, has endured as an icon for twenty years.

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(11-13-2015, 09:57 PM)Koh Wrote: I'm not saying Cloud can't be in, I'm saying DQ is closer to Nintendo than FF is, and would've seemed much less random than Cloud.  Just as popular of an RPG series, so they'd be covering all bases, while still going towards something that just screams Nintendo.  Either way, it would still be nice to see them represent the most influential RPG series somehow.

Cloud isn't random.

There's apart of me that wishes Smash would've stayed Nintendo only. Now that the floodgates are open, things might start to get a little crazy. I don't think it's gotten too crazy yet, but Cloud is a sign of things to come I fear.

I don't know man. A M.U.G.E.N. appeal would be pretty awesome if you ask me.

(11-13-2015, 11:09 PM)Kriven Wrote: Cloud, despite really only mattering to one single game, has endured as an icon for twenty years.

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Cloud isn't random.

Still, if that's all it takes, so many other characters should've been in before Cloud, who existed before him and still exist now, and it hasn't happened.  I still stand by it being a random decision.  Like picking a nametag out of a hat about most iconic video game characters, and going with it.  We could really talk about this all day, and how so many characters close to Nintendo or not have stood the test of time for just as long or longer than Cloud, and are still popular today, mostly Japan like Roy, or not.  Slimes from Dragon Quest, any of the Belmonts or Dracula from Castlevania, Arle or Carbuncle from Puyo Puyo, Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot (though his existence is often the butt of jokes now because of how much his modern games have downgraded...), and the list would just go on and on.

(11-14-2015, 12:35 AM)Koopaul Wrote: There's apart of me that wishes Smash would've stayed Nintendo only. Now that the floodgates are open, things might start to get a little crazy. I don't think it's gotten too crazy yet, but Cloud is a sign of things to come I fear.

I don't see how this can ever be a problem.
No matter who gets in, Mario will always fight the same (with the exception of a few minor changes per game/patch).

Snake- opens the door and closes it
Sonic- opens the door a little
Mega Man- opens it a bit more
Pac-Man- opens it a quarter
Ryu- opens it halfway
Cloud- BOOM there goes the door

Basically. I think any another reveals at this point will be less of a surprise, unless they end up violating one of the rules Sakurai explicitly stated. That'd be the day. Play as Taichi or Agumon from Digimon!

By the way, @senjen, where is your avatar from? Looks familiar for some reason.

Cloud didn't open the door wider.

Snake opened the door for Konami (Then Konami became Konami and Konami is the worst #FucKonami)
Sonic opened the door for SEGA (look at Virtua Fighter costumes)
Mega Man opened the door for Capcom (look at Ryu and Monster Hunter costumes)
Pac-Man opened the door for Namco Bandai (look at Heihachi costume)
Cloud opened the door for Square Enix

I think it's very likely that due to Cloud being in Smash, we'll get Geno.

As a Mii Gunner costume, of course.

makes me hope Shante gets in as well.

also @ koh my avatar is from the college humour parody of beauty and the beast be our bachelor

i wonder does this mean banjo-kazooie has a higher chance than we thought?