A common dilemma in the world of fighting, but also an interesting discussion topic.  Say we have two fighters, Muscles McGoo and Speedy Spud.

Muscles McGoo excels in the areas of brute strength and fortitude.  He can deal devastating attacks with each blow, and can take many blows and shrug them off as if they were nothing.  He isn't very swift, however, and is below average in that department.

Speedy Spud excels in the areas of speed, evasion and flexibility.  He can dodge every attack coming at him, and do so with finesse.  He isn't very strong, however, and is below average in that department.

Given these two fighting entities, who do you think would win, if at all, or do you think it'd end in a stalemate.  Why?

Without their personal histories, it's tough to say. If we're talking about average guys who don't have a history in combat or martial arts, I would say the strong guy should be able to win. Without discipline, agility is fairly worthless.

If we're talking about fighters with a background in combat, speed has a pretty solid shot. Generally though, if the opponent is significantly more muscular and has a similar backgorund, Spud won't be able to inflict a whole lot of damage. He might be swift enough to prance about until Muscles tires himself out, but fights don't usually last that long outside of video games and comic books. All it takes is a half-hearted swing connecting with the tiniest bit of a person to put them down.

I would say the speedy scrapper who can handle a larger opponent is somebody special. Those kinds of individuals are few and far between.

I feel most would go with the speedy dude, so just for the sake of being the contrarian...

What if McGoo was a master tactician?

Think about it for a second. Muscles might not be fast enough to dodge on the spot or keep up with Spud (these names lol) in general, but he could definitely have the capacity to predict a movement ahead of time, and no matter how slow he may be, it would be logical to assume that he could attack based on his prediction, instead of a spontaneous reaction for a potential hit. If his prediction would pay off, the fight would be over instantly. To be fair, depending on how fast Speedy actually is, this could go both ways as Speedy might be quick enough to dodge the attack, but would Spud really assume Muscles would attack in any way other than a direct attempt? If not, this would leave Speedy with a clearly exposed weakness, as not only would it set him up for defeat, but additionally his expectation would oppose the resulting situation, leaving him even more vulnerable to an unexpected and nonsensical method of attack.

All theoretical of course, so it's probably more sensible to call it a stalemate, but debating is fun! : )

definitely a debate-able topic.

As others have said, it does depend a lot on the backgrounds of the fighters, themselves.

And even then, it's not a certainty no matter who has the actual advantage, if you factor in something like dumb luck.

I haven't much time to type here, so I'll add more later, should it come to mind.

This topic should be pretty interesting, now we just need engineers and scientists and stuff to come-in and explain how either one CERTAINLY could win if all the variables were just right! XD

If you drive a car at 300km/h into a concrete wall, I don't think it's the wall that dies.

^ that's some dragon ball z shit right there


I'd have to say that in a fight, it's not about speed or strength, but learning your opponent.

- if you're the strong guy, you can figure out the fast guy's pattern and just punch him square in the gut. bam, the match is over
- if you're the fast guy, you can read up on your opponent, and come that day stall out the match until you find your opponent's weak point and just exploit that until you win

see: women's UFC bantamweight champion ronda roussey :0) who basically downed opponents in less than a minute with her big strength until one day some nerd came with their yomi game on fleek and just rekt her

I thought there'd be some interesting replies in here.  I should've included one more option in the poll, being Undetermined, but that hasn't stopped the great replies so far~

Lol, I also thought about this topic from Cell, so it's funny you mention that.

I also think stamina would indeed play a huge role here; the first one to tire out would probably be the one to lose.  But if we were to assume both could last relatively the same amount of time and pretty long, I'd say it'd end in a stalemate myself.  If both are skilled fighters, able to learn their opponent as they fight, then perhaps they'd both be able to find a weakness in each other's tactics to land a decisive blow.  But the other wouldn't willingly let that happen either, so they'd be put on the defensive the moment the other goes on the offensive.

I actually kind of dislike when people say speed is the be-all/end-all of attributes one could have. Usually, the "fast" guy is the guy that's good at dodging, but not so good at taking hits, where the big guy's easy to hit, but hard to actually hurt. If the big guy was smart, he could use his sturdiness to his advantage to counter the fast characters moves. That person still needs to protect the more vulnerable parts of his body, but fortunately they're harder to hit than the less vulnerable. I think the main thing is how defensive the play is. It's really hard for a speedster to play the defensive approach than it is for the big guy, especially since their defense may barely matter.

Is there anything about them not being allowed to have weapons or armor?

This is one of the game-changing variables that immediately comes to mind

If you're talking about adding fantasy elements to it, then it'd depend on the type of battle system used. But if you mean realistically, then if both parties got weapons and armor, it'd depend on how heavy and cumbersome both are to their wearers.

If we're throwing in proper tools and such into the mix, fast wins because strength means nothing when the other guy comes around a corner and shoots you in the head. Or Strength wins. Maybe he's just a better shot. They call it an "Equalizer" after all.

Quote:It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. 
~Mark Twain

Like everyone said, its pretty much depends on who is the Strength and who is the speed.

Let's take Tifa for example. She can pretty much KO an average person with a single punch. But she can't take a lot of punishment herself. 

• If she were to take on an average opponent with speed proportional to her strength, Tifa would most likely win. A good punch would deliver if they don't know how to use their speed effectively.
  
• If she were to take on an average opponent with the speed of the Flash, Tifa is not going to win. If she can't touch her opponent, she can't really be as effective.
  
• If she were to take on an opponent with a slightly higher speed but the ability to take her punches, there is a good chance that Tifa could lose because the speedy person can take shots and possibly give enough to take her out before they are KOed
  

And that's not including other aspects like experience, knowledge and personality. A cocky speedster leaves openings for a slower opponent. A tactical muscle can realize their weakness and compensate for it. A knowledgeable speedster can use their speed to the most effective. A Muscle Head can make a lot of mistakes. Heck, I've seen stories where the combination of muscle and speed wasn't enough to overcome the other's tactical mind (Sonic Universe #2 with Gamma and Omega being a good example). 

There is no definitive answer for Speed Vs Strength. It only matters if one is beyond comprehension over the other.

(03-16-2016, 12:42 PM)Koh Wrote: If you're talking about adding fantasy elements to it, then it'd depend on the type of battle system used. But if you mean realistically, then if both parties got weapons and armor, it'd depend on how heavy and cumbersome both are to their wearers.

Variables within variables.
I actually meant IRL weapons, but yes... fantasy weapons are an excellent example of how to turn the tables, also.

I'm a professional street fighter and let me tell you speed and strength are both mostly irrelevant. Usually the winner is the fighter with the longest fingernails