Should tSR accept MUGEN sprites?

[Ton]

There are some great MUGEN sheets out there. Everything from Mario and Wario to Peter Griffin and Homer. These sprites can be extracted the same way as regular sprites, but there is a moral question in doing so. Video game sprites are sold as part of the game. We rip those and redistribute for free. MUGEN sprites are usually hand made and not for profit, so should we draw a distinction between the two?

[Maxpphire]

We rip those and redistribute for free. MUGEN sprites are usually hand made and not for profit

We distribute for free and they make them for free. I honestly don't see what the problem is. We already have a few great Mugen sheets on tSR like the ones from that Azumanga Daiho game and my Sheet of Aoko From Melty Blood. Why get rid of them? We aren't stealing because we aren't making a profit off of them when the original creators are not for most mugen games (Except for Melty Blood).

It is like asking if it was ok for Dazz to rip loads of sprites from Maple Story to put on tSR.

[Sol]

I don't really think that ripping sprites from MUGEN is very legitimate. Besides, it would be odd to have a "MUGEN" section. People sprite for MUGEN in a huge variety of styles, so it wouldn't exactly work in my opinion.
I say, allow sprites made for MUGEN to be accepted onto TSR if submitted by their creators, just put them in the "customs" section of their respective series. We shouldn't really be ripping them, however.

It's like this....Putting your custom made sprites into MUGEN is much like hosting them in a gallery like DeviantArt or SheezyArt. They're there for people to enjoy, but that doesn't mean you can just go and do whatever you want with them. That's how I see it, at least.

[Maxpphire]

Yes but if I made a mugen game and someone ripped my sprites from my game I would feel honored. As long as they were to make sure that somewhere it said what game it was from then I'd be fine with it.

Also Sol that can be said about the other games too. Like the ones for the DS. What if Nintendo all of a sudden got very pissy with us because of our Nintendo section and wanted us to take it down?

We honestly don't even have a mugen section. It mostly goes under anime because the majority of the sprites that we have that are Mugen sprites are from some sort of anime.

[Random Talking Bush]

We already have a few great Mugen sheets on tSR like the ones from that Azumanga Daiho game and my Sheet of Aoko From Melty Blood. Why get rid of them? We aren't stealing because we aren't making a profit off of them when the original creators are not for most mugen games (Except for Melty Blood).

It is like asking if it was ok for Dazz to rip loads of sprites from Maple Story to put on tSR.

Actually, A! Taisen Shiyou! isn't a MUGEN game, though most of characters have been ported to MUGEN in one way or another. (The Kamineko, Chiyo-Chichi and Yomi are the only ones that don't have a MUGEN counterpart... yet.)

Anyway, I'm voting for "No." If the artists for the sprites (such as Warner) want their sprites on tSR, they'll have to submit them, not someone else. And as for characters from official/doujin games, such as King of Fighters or Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, they should be ripped from the original games, not from their MUGEN counterparts.

...Oh, and on the topic of ripping from MUGEN characters (and this proves my point more), nobody should try to rip the sprites for Jesuszilla's Felicia, since he edited every single sprite. He already got upset when someone used just one sprite from it for MUGEN-Infantry's "Katamari" without asking him.

(But, however, it's the votes that count, so I'll wait to see what others say about this.)

[Maxpphire]

Well I ripped Aoko from the Actual Computer Melty Blood game (Act Cadenza...) So I'm assuming that she is fine then? (I think of all fighting games as mugen games. I didn't realize there was a difference >< I feel kinda stupid for that.)

[Sol]

Yes, you would feel honored. Other people could feel the same way, or they could have a negative reaction to it, such as a feeling of personal violation. Look, this is the whole reason we have the process of submission anyway, if someone rips sprites and puts them on another website, can we just take them and host them here if we feel like it, without even asking them? Hmm, that's funny, I could've sworn there were sheets on TSR that are "TSR exclusive." Why would that be? Because the person knows and trusts TSR, because they want to know what's going to happen to all the hard work they put into ripping those sprites, much like all the work someone puts into making custom ones.

Look, I don't mean to offend or anything, that's just how I feel.

[Random Talking Bush]

Well I ripped Aoko from the Actual Computer Melty Blood game (Act Cadenza...) So I'm assuming that she is fine then? (I think of all fighting games as mugen games. I didn't realize there was a difference >< I feel kinda stupid for that.)

It should be fine. And you don't have to feel stupid.

Look, I don't mean to offend or anything, that's just how I feel.

No offense taken.
Lun-lun Edit: I'm not offended eather. I get what your saying and it does make sense.

[Ton]

Just for the record, I'm going to say that I'm not voting because I can see both sides of this argument and I'm not sure who I agree with. I do have a few points though;

-Many characters in MUGEN games are simply ports from other games, so ripping from the source would be more appropriate.
-Hosting MUGEN rips is akin to having people redistribute your custom sprites without your consent.
-The only MUGEN rips worth hosting would be complete custom works. See above two points.

[Maxpphire]

Well RTB I feel as a Mod I should know these things. At least I know now. However I'm going to change what I originally said then.

I think that we should but with the Editor's/maker's permission. If not then they shouldn't go up.

[liam543]

Whats Mugen?

[Random Talking Bush]

Whats Mugen?

Feeling a bit lazy/tired right now, so I'll quote myself quoting myself.

Eh? Wait, what is M.U.G.E.N.?

Gonna quote what I said from quite a while ago...

What does MUGEN mean.

MUGEN is a fighting game engine developed by Elecbyte. MUGEN could also stand for "Limitless", since there's literally an unlimited amount of possibilities for it. For example...


Tomo Takino vs. Fei-Long? That never happened in Street Fighter.

Basically, MUGEN's a fighting game engine where people can create their own characters, whether it's the umpteenth iteration of Ryu, or characters that have never fought before (such as Ronald McDonald or Pingu). Quite a lot of them use custom-drawn sprites, but most of them rely on the graphics/gameplay from their game of origin.

[Boo]

Yes, I agree with Lunyka, if they ask permission to be able to rip their sprite, then sure, go for it. If not, then they don't go up.

[JoshR691]

This is a grey area for me, cause it would be like someone submitting someone else's stuff...But that's what ripping is(more or less...)

Maybe if we get permission, it'd be alright, but I dunno...Like I said, a grey area for me...

[GaryCXJk]

There is one point I think is very valid in this issue.

On tSR we have or had ZIP archives. Not a lot, only about two or three or something like that. In these ZIP archives there were separate tiles or sprites or whatever was in there. Those are rips submitted by someone. You can call a ZIP file a compilation of sprites, just like a sheet is a compilation of sprites.

I've worked with MUGEN, MUGEN makes use of one single file where all sprites are stored in. You can say that these files are a compilation of sprites. So, if we were to accept these MUGEN sprites, we should also accept sheets made from sprites from ZIP files.

We do allow rips from Macromedia Flash, however, only if they come from an official site. Fangames I believe are still not allowed. However, basically a MUGEN rip is a rip from a fangame. And here it doesn't matter if the sprites are custom or not, fact is that it's a fangame. It's actually the same reason why we disallowed fangame rips from Flash games, it's because we would be ripping sprites from someone who probably put a lot of effort in creating these sprites, and that without actually crediting them or even asking them whether or not it would be allowed.

So, in short, it should be a no, simply because we would actually go against our own ethics and beliefs.