RPG Discussion (Formerly; Earthbound or Chrono Trigger?)

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

That being said, Lightning was meant to be the female counterpart of Cloud, and she was at first. But she did the one thing Cloud failed to do-- develop any sort of character.

actually

cloud DOES develop character, but only in the actual game of FF7, in every spin off most fans identify him with 'brooding and emo'
in the first disc he's basically zack fair. he's a cocky, trained SOLDIER who knows what he's doing and means business

in the second disc he finds out most of his memories are lies gets mako poisoning, and has a close friend/love interest die

if a character didn't have some kind of negative reaction towards something massive like that happening, well fuck that's just ridiculous. he gets depressed and dwells on the hopelessness of the situation at the time.
things get better, and by the end of the game he's got the perseverance and resolve to continue on and strike down the one thing that tied everything together. it's implied he gets even better from his emotional funk, but in advent children they went with 'bitter and brooding' cloud because it's more popular with fans (teenage girls and boys)

a lot of people really hate the FF8 storyline because it's confusing as fuck but

http://squallsdead.com/
this """""""""""""""theory""""""""""""""" suggests that squall actually dies in disc 1, which explains the confusing turn of events in disc 2

and when i read further into it, it sounds crazy but... it actually makes sense

there are a billion theories for FF8, i like the one the game gives you because if you lay it all out it makes sense.

[Ton]

I never understood FF8 hate. To me it has always been the most cinematic story in the series. It feels like a movie. The magic system is jilting, and the characters all play the same, but I really dig the story. FF7, on the other hand, has been hyped up. It's a very good game, don't get me wrong, but I can think of at least three other games in the series that are better. It's the most famous because it was the first one in 3-D and it was one of the first games to try to get an adult audience with its "DRINK YOUR TEA, GODDAMMIT!" dialogue.
FF9 was the most self-aware of the FF games, sporting references to past games and playing with the tropes (Female head of the guard/resident badass, adult male knight is inept, black mage is timid and quiet, white mage is boisterous and demanding (x2), obvious adoption/lineage questions of a certain princess, etc etc etc) FF10, while great, began the era of Final Fantasy having to reinvent itself every game and become more convoluted in its experience system. The series is trying so hard to be different now that it has become stale and unapproachable.

[Gors]

itt let's talk about Final Fantasy despite this thread's name being 'Earthbound or Chrono Trigger?'

[DioShiba]

Maybe you should actually play it instead of knocking it with no knowledge of what it actually is? If anything, FF6 is closer in terms of feel and story to FF7 and FF8 than it is to FF1-5.

Also the Job system is gone in FF6.

Alright then, I play the game until I get through at least a quarter of it then tell you what I think, so you can stop complaining at me for playing a "good" game.

I can already tell you though, the intro tells me that it still has magic, Which, no matter how you look at it, is still a midevil element that has been in the FF games for a long ass time, gonna throw that out there right now.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

I never understood FF8 hate. To me it has always been the most cinematic story in the series. It feels like a movie. The magic system is jilting, and the characters all play the same, but I really dig the story. FF7, on the other hand, has been hyped up. It's a very good game, don't get me wrong, but I can think of at least three other games in the series that are better. It's the most famous because it was the first one in 3-D and it was one of the first games to try to get an adult audience with its "DRINK YOUR TEA, GODDAMMIT!" dialogue.
FF9 was the most self-aware of the FF games, sporting references to past games and playing with the tropes (Female head of the guard/resident badass, adult male knight is inept, black mage is timid and quiet, white mage is boisterous and demanding (x2), obvious adoption/lineage questions of a certain princess, etc etc etc) FF10, while great, began the era of Final Fantasy having to reinvent itself every game and become more convoluted in its experience system. The series is trying so hard to be different now that it has become stale and unapproachable.

really i thought ff7 was popular because it dealt with the fact that your main characters are terrorists, kind of flawed, there was a heavy message about impact on the environment, and the fact that the badguys weren't just omnipotent emperors and kings, but normal men and women (for the most part) that you saw almost as often as the secondary characters that still heavily played an important role in the story

the series is fine, you're just weird.
if final fantasy wasn't named final fantasy, nobody would be complaining imo

also i REALLY like 8 because it's almost a deconstruction of RPG tropes. i like how it plays out, the fact that your 'young soldier' archetypes are completely emotionally stunted because they're not old enough to be able to mentally handle the actual horrors of combat

[PrettyNier]

7 is probably the only final fantasy game that is genuinely about something, down to its very core.

[Maxpphire]

The villain of 7 kinda irks me though. He isn't that great of a villain.

[PrettyNier]

honestly
fuck what everyone says, i genuinely like sephiroth - namely for the psychology of the character.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

sephiroth doesn't really work as a classical villain. JENOVA manipulates most of the events in the game, but they really only happen because the shinra board of directors are corrupt enough to let it happen.
sephiroth could be seen as an antagonist to a few of the protagonists directly, but the 'villains' are really the SHINRA corporation, specifically, you could narrow it down to rufus and hojo.
(atleast that's how it seemed when i played it)

[Ton]

Sephiroth is hella boring. He exists only to be more bland and emo than Cloud. Most FF baddies are boring though. Golbez has the most depth. Kefka is the most fun, if incredibly one-dimensional.

[PrettyNier]

oh gee god forbid somebody have existential issues about the nature and meaning of their existence stemming from the genuine conditions that gave birth to them
or for his reactions/struggles/problems to specifically represent and frame the antithesis of what the game itself is about


golbez is kind of a joke, honestly. i can't take final fantasy 4 seriously; no matter what it attempts to do, the whole of the game feels like such a random and meaningless assortment of events and things. the biggest issue with final fantasy 4 is just how prototypical it is.

"i was mad at you and he took control of me." is such an overdone trope.

[SebaSan1981]

I prefer CT because it's the best rpg (from snes and psx) for me. Chrono Trigger is one of the best early role playing games made. Thats why it shipped more than 2.36 million copies in Japan and 290,000 abroad.

[Maxpphire]

To me Kefka just had more personality then all of the other villains, maybe not in depth or anything like that but the most memerable. He was a crazy, badass, unpredictable guy dressed up like a clown who all he wants to do is have fun. He is like the Joker from batman but 80 times more so.

To me Sephiroth was boring many because it felt like he was just saying this the whole time "haha I killed your lover. Now look at those people sympathizing with you because that is the best way to become a good villain is to make everyone like the hero and show how evil you are for killing a flower girl that the hero liked!!!!!!!!!!"

And with Kefka it was like "Haha, I burned down this whole village because I could. Now I'mma gonna become a god and destroy the world now and destroy anyone who doesn't agree with me kthnxbai"

Not many villains get that close to their goal.
Also Kefka is on this list and Sephiroth is not: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/list.html

[Ton]

oh gee god forbid somebody have existential issues about the nature and meaning of their existence stemming from the genuine conditions that gave birth to them
or for his reactions/struggles/problems to specifically represent and frame the antithesis of what the game itself is about


golbez is kind of a joke, honestly. i can't take final fantasy 4 seriously; no matter what it attempts to do, the whole of the game feels like such a random and meaningless assortment of events and things. the biggest issue with final fantasy 4 is just how prototypical it is.

"i was mad at you and he took control of me." is such an overdone trope.

I'm all for existentialism, and if it was just Sephiroth, it would be fine, but we get almost the same thing from Cloud through the whole game. The narrative gets so laden with mopey characters that it becomes a chore to get through. Good thing the gameplay is fun. In fact, FF7 seems like the opposite of FF8 in that respect. FF7 has great gameplay and a weak/trudging/rehashed story. FF8 has a great story and mediocre to bad gameplay.

EVERY Final Fantasy game is a meaningless assortment of events and things. FF7; snowboarding? Golden Saucer? Fort Condor?

I can't argue that FF4 isn't prototypical because that's exactly what it is. It's all so cliche because it's the game that began a lot of RPG cliches. You're absolutely right. I still enjoy it, personally. I can still enjoy the game for what it introduced to the genre and the story--as prototypical as it is.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

huh, no we don't. when was the last time you played 7, tonberry?
cloud doesn't go through his existential crisis until the tail end of disc two, you actually get it from EVERYONE because they realize the world might be ending, barring cait sith and vincent is mopey for the whole game. (LUCRECIA)


the world ENDING let me just put that here for emphasis