Super Mario World: All-Star Edition: Team Fangame Project

[Crappy Blue Luigi]

woah woah hey what am i reading here
everybody chill the fuck out.

guys, i know graphics are not more important than gameplay, but don't outright dismiss the issue. it's small, but it's there. the reason you don't hear it from other sources is because those sources don't give a flying fuck about good graphics. it's a sad fact, but as long as you're using official nintendo-made graphics, nobody in a fan-gaming community is going to criticize the way your game looks. but this is not a regular fan-gaming site; this is the spriters resource, where we not only rip tons of sprites, we also create tons of sprites. the spriting community here is practically built on giving and receiving criticism in order to improve as pixel artists, and we apply that same principle to games posted in this subforum.

try to understand that we're trying to help you make a better looking game. if you're going to ignore our criticisms, then why even stick around?

[StrikeForcer]

woah woah hey what am i reading here
everybody chill the fuck out.

guys, i know graphics are not more important than gameplay, but don't outright dismiss the issue. it's small, but it's there. the reason you don't hear it from other sources is because those sources don't give a flying fuck about good graphics. it's a sad fact, but as long as you're using official nintendo-made graphics, nobody in a fan-gaming community is going to criticize the way your game looks. but this is not a regular fan-gaming site; this is the spriters resource, where we not only rip tons of sprites, we also create tons of sprites. the spriting community here is practically built on giving and receiving criticism in order to improve as pixel artists, and we apply that same principle to games posted in this subforum.

try to understand that we're trying to help you make a better looking game. if you're going to ignore our criticisms, then why even stick around?

Some sources do, give a flying fuck about good graphics. SMWCentral is a SMW-hacking site, and they care about graphics at times (mostly if they clash). I know that you are trying to help, but not really in the right way. Most of you guys were complaining and bitching about the issues pointed out that we are aware about and are gonna fix it. The way the complaints were was very harsh and somewhat and sometimes unecessary, to the point of it being very destructive criticism. We need some spriters and pixel artists who can make bgs and tilesets in the style of SMAS-SMB3 for SMW: ASE. We are, sufficient on sprites, but not on custom, handmade tilesets and backgrounds even less. I hope you guys understand.

[Mikeystar]

Spoiler

20-40 FPS is what I normally get.

20-40 is a pretty ridiculous variation for running something on the same machine, and 40 is really quite low if your base is 60. I appreciate that you're trying to fix the problem, but it might be worth looking at some slightly lower-level stuff than you have previously, stuff like memory management; garbage collection, memory leakage and the like.

You use GM right? I think there was an option to disable all objects that are out of view (it's been a while so I'm not entirely sure). If that's not enabled, you could try if that helps. Other than that, all you can do is to try to optimize your code. Code optimisation is a whole book on its own, though. Using less objects (enemies etc) in areas where the framerate drops should also help.

Mikeystar, Have you tried using the Clean Mem DLL, it eliminates unneeded data and helps improve the games speed.

I don't know what version this uses but GM 8.0 runs about 10 FPS faster than GM 8.1, and that's using optimalized scripting and coding, I minimalized coding for I project I was working on and I imported the data to GM 8.0 and made a couple minior changes and it ran at about 60 FPs most of the time, unlike being on GM 8.1 which it ran at about 45-50 FPS tops.

Hope this helps.

That certainly is yellow

Also noting that in the first screenshot Mario's cape is wrong, and of course that YI-background in the third screenshot clashes with everything else, and what's that floating hand thing in all of them? Don't tell me we're going to have to use the mouse for stuff in this game?

I appreciate the amount of work you're putting into this, really, I do, but some levels have health meters, some don't, there's so many different variables, coins, cherries, gems, stars all in the first screenshot's HUD, and what looks like the card thing from SMB3, why is that there, I get the feeling you're not really focusing so much on proving good gameplay but just a lot of it. And while I love giving the player multiple gameplay options, you're really not doing that, and just seem to be changing the rules every other level or so, which isn't a very good way of going about the game.

I dunno. Maybe if I played a demo I'd have more to say on the matter, but from what I've seen, I'm not really impressed by this, just confused.

Also, if you're going to provide the player with the option of getting to 999 lives, and are admitting your game is easy, just remove the lives system altogether. It's obsolete and you clearly don't need it.

You should say this to MKFusion as well.

...

What's so confusing about the HUD? Why is it so confusing? Seriously?

...

As for the graphics. That's all we have right now, and if the clashing is a problem that's the best we can do. I'm glad the bit-format is 16-bit meanwhile. The backgrounds are not much of a problem.

_________________________________________

For people who are explaining things that are similar to Zero Kirby's post.

We are sorry you feel that way, and that you are not providing the critique we are looking for. We're not looking forward to hearing that backgrounds are clashing with graphics, or, some tileset seems to pop out from the rest of the graphics. If you don't appreciate it, then, just don't download the demo when it comes. It may not look polished in your opinion, but, I believe this game will be very fun to play when released, as long the frame rate isn't much of a problem, which it isn't for plenty.

We're not forcing you to play the game, and that there are already many people following the project and eagerly awaiting it's release. Aplenty. We have hope. But..

If this continues, we will take business elsewhere, and that is that. If you choose to be make fun of the gimmicks of this fangame, so be it, but we will not respond.

I'm sorry but just shut up

I don't, and nobody else, cares if you don't like that everyone's pointing out the graphics are not great, because since everyone else is pointing it out, it's clearly a problem that needs to be addressed whether you feel like addressing it or not. You're tired of hearing it? Not looking forward to hearing it even more? Then fucking fix it. Those graphics are not "the best" you can do. They are far from it.

You can say it'll be fun when it's released. You can say it'll be a good game. You can say a lot of things! But from what you are showing me, I don't believe the things you're saying! I have no incentive to believe these things either as you seem to be saying I'm wrong, rather than trying to ease my doubts!

I could say the same things to MKFusion as well, certainly, but that has absolutely nothing to do with your topic so do not change the subject. We're not talking about MKFusion, we're talking about your game.

The HUD is confusing because there's a lot of shit in it. You have a coin counter, a cherry counter, some gem counter, and some star counter, on top of a point counter. Why are you counting so many things!? Do so many things need to be counted? Are there honestly four different common collectables throughout the game? Doesn't that seem like a bit much?

And you say the framerate isn't a problem for plenty... you know this? For a fact? I didn't see a demo download in this topic, so where are you getting your "plenty" from?

If you're going to leave just because everyone here says your graphics are bad, which they are, then clearly you weren't paying attention to the name of the place when you were posting!

Yea, so can someone please close this topic? We don't want to hear members criticize this game anymore.

What. What. What did I just read.

If you didn't want criticism you shouldn't have posted this topic in the first place! How else can you expect to improve your skills if you can't take criticism!?

I'm at a loss for words. Honestly.

woah woah hey what am i reading here
everybody chill the fuck out.

guys, i know graphics are not more important than gameplay, but don't outright dismiss the issue. it's small, but it's there. the reason you don't hear it from other sources is because those sources don't give a flying fuck about good graphics. it's a sad fact, but as long as you're using official nintendo-made graphics, nobody in a fan-gaming community is going to criticize the way your game looks. but this is not a regular fan-gaming site; this is the spriters resource, where we not only rip tons of sprites, we also create tons of sprites. the spriting community here is practically built on giving and receiving criticism in order to improve as pixel artists, and we apply that same principle to games posted in this subforum.

try to understand that we're trying to help you make a better looking game. if you're going to ignore our criticisms, then why even stick around?

Some sources do, give a flying fuck about good graphics. SMWCentral is a SMW-hacking site, and they care about graphics at times (mostly if they clash). I know that you are trying to help, but not really in the right way. Most of you guys were complaining and bitching about the issues pointed out that we are aware about and are gonna fix it. We need some spriters who can make bgs and tilesets in the style of SMAS-SMB3. We are, sufficient on sprites, but not on custom, handmade tilesets and backgrounds even less.

Not only that. I'm not expecting to work a incredibly long time (lets say 6 years) just trying to change graphics that look fine to start with. YI Backgrounds for example. Some of us were already burned out trying to fix issues we have for a very long time. Frame rate is a main issue. It affects the programming department.

[Zero Kirby]

So after reading their "rebuttals" of my posts it's pretty clear they didn't bother reading them in detail, so I will simply rewrite my criticisms that they are ignoring and then leave

- The graphics clash and are very bland. Most everyone here has said this. This means it's a problem, ignoring it is not the solution. My concern is that you've also said that it's the best you can do - you people are lying and you know it. Stop it. SMB3-style is overused, as well. It is not the end-all-be-all of Mario sprite styles.

- So you compare HUDs to MKFusion, whatever, we're still not talking about it, we're talking about your game. And just because someone else does it doesn't mean it's okay for you to. I don't care (or even know) what MKFusion does.

- It's not so much the HUD is confusing as much as that there's too much stuff in it. You have no less than FOUR collectable whatevers and a score counter. Do you REALLY need to have four - again, FOUR - different collectable objects in a platforming game? I don't care if it's referencing other Mario games - it's clunky and unnecessary and takes up space on the screen. There's a reason most Mario games stick to tracking only points and coins.

- Graphics do not overrule gameplay, sure. But your game looks very cookie-cutter, since it's using the bland-as-hell SMB3 graphics.

Now, as for sspp03 -

Have you checked other forums other than here and MFGG that has SMW: ASE being showcased and see people complaining about the graphics such as SMWCentral, GDRL, The Minus World? NO! Check your sources as just a bunch of nitpicks complaining about the graphics isnt really enough

I don't care what anyone on any other forum has to say - you're posting on this forum. You're gonna have to deal with this forum's criticisms.

The "plenty" that you are talking about is what the FPS was from the members actually receiving the dev to test the game out. It was laggy on their computers, but around two of them had the game run at normal speed.

That's not plenty at all! Mikeystar said plenty of people had good framerates! Two people is not plenty! Two people is clearly not even the whole team! Your team is lying to our faces! Why should we trust anything you say about your game after that?

I give up. It's clear you guys don't actually want our help, even though we've willingly gave it.

EDIT: Welp, read this:

The way the complaints were was very harsh and somewhat and sometimes unecessary, to the point of it being very destructive criticism.

Hey, I tried being nice in my first post and was soundly ignored. Clearly being harsh isn't the issue! It's just that you don't want to listen to anything that says your product is less than you think it is!

[StrikeForcer]

Spoiler

So after reading their "rebuttals" of my posts it's pretty clear they didn't bother reading them in detail, so I will simply rewrite my criticisms that they are ignoring and then leave

- The graphics clash and are very bland. Most everyone here has said this. This means it's a problem, ignoring it is not the solution. My concern is that you've also said that it's the best you can do - you people are lying and you know it. Stop it. SMB3-style is overused, as well. It is not the end-all-be-all of Mario sprite styles.

- So you compare HUDs to MKFusion, whatever, we're still not talking about it, we're talking about your game. And just because someone else does it doesn't mean it's okay for you to. I don't care (or even know) what MKFusion does.

- It's not so much the HUD is confusing as much as that there's too much stuff in it. You have no less than FOUR collectable whatevers and a score counter. Do you REALLY need to have four - again, FOUR - different collectable objects in a platforming game? I don't care if it's referencing other Mario games - it's clunky and unnecessary and takes up space on the screen. There's a reason most Mario games stick to tracking only points and coins.

- Graphics do not overrule gameplay, sure. But your game looks very cookie-cutter, since it's using the bland-as-hell SMB3 graphics.

Now, as for sspp03 -

Have you checked other forums other than here and MFGG that has SMW: ASE being showcased and see people complaining about the graphics such as SMWCentral, GDRL, The Minus World? NO! Check your sources as just a bunch of nitpicks complaining about the graphics isnt really enough

I don't care what anyone on any other forum has to say - you're posting on this forum. You're gonna have to deal with this forum's criticisms.

The "plenty" that you are talking about is what the FPS was from the members actually receiving the dev to test the game out. It was laggy on their computers, but around two of them had the game run at normal speed.

That's not plenty at all! Mikeystar said plenty of people had good framerates! Two people is not plenty! Two people is clearly not even the whole team! Your team is lying to our faces! Why should we trust anything you say about your game after that?

I give up. It's clear you guys don't actually want our help, even though we've willingly gave it.

You misunderstood me. We arent lying to your fucking faces. It was a bit of a miscommunication. We have like around 10 or more people on the team. Two people of the team who TESTED the dev actually reported good framerates. The rest of the team, including myself and Mikeystar had the dev running at less than optimal speeds. The dev is constantly being updated to address some errors and we are adding new things in there. The graphical style was already decided back in 2010, its too late to change that because we are focusing on releasing a demo.

EDIT: Welp, read this:


Quote:The way the complaints were was very harsh and somewhat and sometimes unecessary, to the point of it being very destructive criticism.

Hey, I tried being nice in my first post and was soundly ignored. Clearly being harsh isn't the issue! It's just that you don't want to listen to anything that says your product is less than you think it is!

Again, you misunderstood me. We DO listen to complaints, we DO fix em, but try to the best of our ability. I know the state of which SMW: ASE is in because I participate in their development.

[Mikeystar]

Spoiler

So after reading their "rebuttals" of my posts it's pretty clear they didn't bother reading them in detail, so I will simply rewrite my criticisms that they are ignoring and then leave

- The graphics clash and are very bland. Most everyone here has said this. This means it's a problem, ignoring it is not the solution. My concern is that you've also said that it's the best you can do - you people are lying and you know it. Stop it. SMB3-style is overused, as well. It is not the end-all-be-all of Mario sprite styles.

- So you compare HUDs to MKFusion, whatever, we're still not talking about it, we're talking about your game. And just because someone else does it doesn't mean it's okay for you to. I don't care (or even know) what MKFusion does.

- It's not so much the HUD is confusing as much as that there's too much stuff in it. You have no less than FOUR collectable whatevers and a score counter. Do you REALLY need to have four - again, FOUR - different collectable objects in a platforming game? I don't care if it's referencing other Mario games - it's clunky and unnecessary and takes up space on the screen. There's a reason most Mario games stick to tracking only points and coins.

- Graphics do not overrule gameplay, sure. But your game looks very cookie-cutter, since it's using the bland-as-hell SMB3 graphics.

Now, as for sspp03 -

Have you checked other forums other than here and MFGG that has SMW: ASE being showcased and see people complaining about the graphics such as SMWCentral, GDRL, The Minus World? NO! Check your sources as just a bunch of nitpicks complaining about the graphics isnt really enough

I don't care what anyone on any other forum has to say - you're posting on this forum. You're gonna have to deal with this forum's criticisms.

The "plenty" that you are talking about is what the FPS was from the members actually receiving the dev to test the game out. It was laggy on their computers, but around two of them had the game run at normal speed.

That's not plenty at all! Mikeystar said plenty of people had good framerates! Two people is not plenty! Two people is clearly not even the whole team! Your team is lying to our faces! Why should we trust anything you say about your game after that?

I give up. It's clear you guys don't actually want our help, even though we've willingly gave it.

EDIT: Welp, read this:

The way the complaints were was very harsh and somewhat and sometimes unecessary, to the point of it being very destructive criticism.

Hey, I tried being nice in my first post and was soundly ignored. Clearly being harsh isn't the issue! It's just that you don't want to listen to anything that says your product is less than you think it is!

How are you helping? I've heard several critiques about clashing graphics. I wouldn't expect you to work 5-6 years for changing several graphics, let alone backgrounds, that aren't much of an issue if you had a problem in your own fangame.

It takes years to become a good spriter, and if becoming a spriter is more than to just work on this fangame, I'd leave the backgrounds where they are now. At least most of the foreground graphics fit in.

The HUD is large, yes, but I don't expect you writing down notes on a sheet of paper saying how many cherries do you have or, how much Bonus Stars do you have. Besides, all of these things don't appear on the screen all at once. understand, okay.

[Zero Kirby]

You misunderstood me. We arent lying to your fucking faces. It was a bit of a miscommunication. We have like around 10 or more people on the team. Two people of the team who TESTED the dev actually reported good framerates. The rest of the team, including myself and Mikeystar had the dev running at less than optimal speeds. The dev is constantly being updated to address some errors and we are adding new things in there.

Okay. But Mikeystar said the framerate isn't a problem for plenty of people. That implies that the framerate is normal for plenty of people. He got that from somewhere, I'm guessing your dev test. 20%, of which he himself is not even included, is not plenty. That is a very small number. Mikeystar should've known this, so either Mikeystar likes unstable framerates and assumes everyone else does, or Mikeystar lied.

How are you helping? I don't expect you to work 5-6 years for changing several graphics, let alone backgrounds, that aren't much of an issue.

The HUD is large, yes, but I don't expect you writing down notes on a sheet of paper saying how many cherries do you have or, how much Bonus Stars do you have. Besides, all of these things don't appear on the screen all at once. understand, okay.

How am I helping? Besides trying to point out various problems I see with your screenshots? I've said things about more than just the choice of graphics, I hope you noticed.

Also I noticed you're still ignoring my problem with your HUD - you are tracking too much stuff. It doesn't matter that you are putting numbers there so I don't have to track it, or that it's not always on screen, you are keeping track of too many variables to begin with. I really, REALLY doubt you can't find a way to drop the cherries, gems, and Bonus Stars, considering you've got coins and Ace Coins.

[StrikeForcer]

Spoiler

You misunderstood me. We arent lying to your fucking faces. It was a bit of a miscommunication. We have like around 10 or more people on the team. Two people of the team who TESTED the dev actually reported good framerates. The rest of the team, including myself and Mikeystar had the dev running at less than optimal speeds. The dev is constantly being updated to address some errors and we are adding new things in there.

Okay. But Mikeystar said the framerate isn't a problem for plenty of people. That implies that the framerate is normal for plenty of people. He got that from somewhere, I'm guessing your dev test. 20%, of which he himself is not even included, is not plenty. That is a very small number. Mikeystar should've known this, so either Mikeystar likes unstable framerates and assumes everyone else does, or Mikeystar lied.

How are you helping? I don't expect you to work 5-6 years for changing several graphics, let alone backgrounds, that aren't much of an issue.

The HUD is large, yes, but I don't expect you writing down notes on a sheet of paper saying how many cherries do you have or, how much Bonus Stars do you have. Besides, all of these things don't appear on the screen all at once. understand, okay.

How am I helping? Besides trying to point out various problems I see with your screenshots? I've said things about more than just the choice of graphics, I hope you noticed.

Also I noticed you're still ignoring my problem with your HUD - you are tracking too much stuff. It doesn't matter that you are putting numbers there so I don't have to track it, or that it's not always on screen, you are keeping track of too many variables to begin with. I really, REALLY doubt you can't find a way to drop the cherries, gems, and Bonus Stars, considering you've got coins and Ace Coins.

Mikeystar knows that unstable frame rates are a problem. We are still working on solving the problem to make the frame rate stable so that more people can play the game without much or no lag at all when future releases of SMW: ASE comes to fruitition.

[Karate Cat Alpha]

I'm not gonna fucking quote all those things most of you scums here said about ASE. I'd like to stop and take a moment to say..



.. and hi, I am Karate Cat, SMWASE's 2# member, and very second administartor. Go ahead, say something bad about ASE. I don't understand why you people fall for other people's crap being wonderful and out of this world, and not a project like ours that we took time and hard work on. Tisk tisk tisk.

Well, that is all. Au revoir!

[Cshad]

Really

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

it's cool that you worked hard on your project at all; i haven't played it yet but if you really want me to i will, i will give you an analytical breakdown
what i am most concerned; though, is why talented (obviously, not denying that, this looks pretty freakin nice for a fangame) keep bothering with mario games and in general, platformers revolving around these kinds of mechanics.

also "graphics" not being as important as gameplay is an absolute utter lie! graphics are what convey the details of the world and focus of the game to the player. bad graphics can mean more than just ugly spriters, and using tiles and assets from different games that were trying to convey different things is pretty bad form for your entire product.
also, as far as PR goes, the way you act on the forum is pretty fucking shitty even though I act literally the same way, but I don't give two shits about most of the people here and I'm not trying to actively get them to enjoy my product
also since everyone is expecting it

"sucks, it's bad, etc"

[Mikeystar]

You misunderstood me. We arent lying to your fucking faces. It was a bit of a miscommunication. We have like around 10 or more people on the team. Two people of the team who TESTED the dev actually reported good framerates. The rest of the team, including myself and Mikeystar had the dev running at less than optimal speeds. The dev is constantly being updated to address some errors and we are adding new things in there.

Okay. But Mikeystar said the framerate isn't a problem for plenty of people. That implies that the framerate is normal for plenty of people. He got that from somewhere, I'm guessing your dev test. 20%, of which he himself is not even included, is not plenty. That is a very small number. Mikeystar should've known this, so either Mikeystar likes unstable framerates and assumes everyone else does, or Mikeystar lied.

How are you helping? I don't expect you to work 5-6 years for changing several graphics, let alone backgrounds, that aren't much of an issue.

The HUD is large, yes, but I don't expect you writing down notes on a sheet of paper saying how many cherries do you have or, how much Bonus Stars do you have. Besides, all of these things don't appear on the screen all at once. understand, okay.

How am I helping? Besides trying to point out various problems I see with your screenshots? I've said things about more than just the choice of graphics, I hope you noticed.

Mikeystar: These problems have been pointed out before, ZeroKirby. But it's a problem globally then it should be addressed. Again, the whole HUD doesn't appear on the screen!

Also I noticed you're still ignoring my problem with your HUD - you are tracking too much stuff. It doesn't matter that you are putting numbers there so I don't have to track it, or that it's not always on screen, you are keeping track of too many variables to begin with. I really, REALLY doubt you can't find a way to drop the cherries, gems, and Bonus Stars, considering you've got coins and Ace Coins.

Mikeystar: Gems? It's money, but you don't care. All of these parts of the HUD are essential in some way. I shouldn't have to say it again. If all of these things are in the HUD that's because somewhere in that level it takes place in the game. Not always for the cherry counter, but hey. Its not covering the screen, right?

Also "graphics" not being as important as gameplay is an absolute utter lie! graphics are what convey the details of the world and focus of the game to the player. bad graphics can mean more than just ugly spriters, and using tiles and assets from different games that were trying to convey different things is pretty bad form for your entire product.

Mikeystar: I stand corrected. I apologize. But for the #th time, the clashing isn't too much of a problem for several forum members on other boards. (MFGG, Talking Time, Bibby Team, etc.)

[StrikeForcer]

Hmm, I find this really blown out of porportion. Anyways, graphics and gameplay are equally important at times, but gameplay is the real thing that defines what game which can be a sucess or failure. Using clashy graphics isnt much of a last resort, its used by people who cant sprite to full what they graphically need temporary untill such thing is redone in the style that the person wants it (this is often done in 16-bit fangames and ROM-hacks). This is why we also need some spriters from here to help make the graphics uniform and not clashy.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

man it would be really great if your post was comprehensible at all

Mikeystar: I stand corrected. I apologize. But for the #th time, the clashing isn't too much of a problem for several forum members on other boards.

honestly i want to know what these forums are

[StrikeForcer]

man it would be really great if your post was comprehensible at all

Mikeystar: I stand corrected. I apologize. But for the #th time, the clashing isn't too much of a problem for several forum members on other boards.

honestly i want to know what these forums are

Hes talking about the forum being advertised on his signature.