How'd you make a 3D Donkey Kong game?

[Gwen]

I love it when he shouts Puppy Power.
Difference of opinion I suppose.

[Kriven]

I've noticed a general pattern among the characters and games brought up in this thread:

"They suck because opinion."

[Mutsukki]

Except we gave actual arguments to why they suck as opposed to "because I don't like it". If that's the case, then discussing these stuff is useless anyway

[Kriven]

Except we gave actual arguments to why they suck as opposed to "because I don't like it". If that's the case, then discussing these stuff is useless anyway

Except you didn't.

He's an ape in pajamas with a dumb face.

So?

Doesn't tell me anything and it's really boring overall.

Actually, it tells you a lot. It tells you that he's young, naive, and doesn't quite understand a lot about the world or that he's too dopey to get it. His idle animations all show a lack of understanding of what's going on around him, because he's a baby and can hardly grasp his own existence.

Even DK, which is literally an ape with a necktie is way more interesting than him.

Literally just "I think this."

He actually looks like he has personality.

So does Kiddy.


All of your "actual arguments" are just "I don't like this" with a necktie.

[Previous]

Let me jump in right here before once again a harmless discussion turns into personal arguments. Seems to happen regularly around you, Kriven.

[Koopaul]

Sheesh I should have never mentioned that character!

Oh but maybe this is a good way to get back on topic... What DK characters would you like to see in this new Donkey Kong game? What guys should come back and what role would they play?

[Mutsukki]

I won't turn this into personal arguments, don't worry. Babies generally aren't good characters, because they use to lack personality as a whole and rely on "funny baby actions" and how they don't understand the world. It can be done right, if the babies have more going for them than only. The baby brothers from Mario used to be an interesting concept (baby version of the main hero), but boring overall. It wasn't until Partners in Time that they were at least able to become likeable characters. Kiddy is paired with a bland color scheme and nothing that really makes him stand out from the others (a full light blue pajama does tell me he's a baby, I give you that, but it's so monochrome I end up not caring). While Diddy Kong has his acrobacies, Donkey has his strenght and sense of justice, Dixie has her ponytail use, his most defining trait is crying and he plays just exactly as Donkey Kong. Heck, they made even 3 more interesting characters on DK64 than they were able with him. He just lacks charisma and personality in general.

You can break down my post again if you want, but from the above one, just one of the comments were actually opinions (DK being better). I'm not stating facts, I'm giving arguments as to why he's perceived as a boring one. This is very different from "this charater is bad/good because I like him/don't". Until now you didn't give any reason as to why he was interesting either, aside from your own opinion.

[Kriven]

I won't turn this into personal arguments, don't worry. Babies generally aren't good characters, because they use to lack personality as a whole and rely on "funny baby actions" and how they don't understand the world. It can be done right, if the babies have more going for them than only. The baby brothers from Mario used to be an interesting concept (baby version of the main hero), but boring overall. It wasn't until Partners in Time that they were at least able to become likeable characters. Kiddy is paired with a bland color scheme and nothing that really makes him stand out from the others (a full light blue pajama does tell me he's a baby, I give you that, but it's so monochrome I end up not caring). While Diddy Kong has his acrobacies, Donkey has his strenght and sense of justice, Dixie has her ponytail use, his most defining trait is crying and he plays just exactly as Donkey Kong. Heck, they made even 3 more interesting characters on DK64 than they were able with him. He just lacks charisma and personality in general.

You can break down my post again if you want, but from the above one, just one of the comments were actually opinions (DK being better). I'm not stating facts, I'm giving arguments as to why he's perceived as a boring one. This is very different from "this charater is bad/good because I like him/don't". Until now you didn't give any reason as to why he was interesting either, aside from your own opinion.

This post is miles better than the other one, thank you. I can see better now why you'd maybe not have issues with the character but have disinterest in him, and why others might. I don't exactly agree on the point of his style, his clothes, but I can see where you're coming from when comparing him with the other Kongs.

I agree with you on the playstyle thing though, now that you've broken that down as to the progression of the series. Kiddy didn't really have his own gameplay gimmick like the other Kongs did. I never looked at it like that before, because I just viewed the Dixie/Kiddy team as Donkey/Diddy, but that was only partially true.

As for why Kiddy is interesting: Well, like you said, it's all opinion. There really aren't facts here, which is what I was actually getting at upthread. It's all just matters of opinion. But I personally like Kiddy for two primary reasons:

One: DKC3 was my first DKC game.

Two: I like to imagine how Kiddy is thinking about the world and the situations he ends up in. The situation might be grave for Dixie, but Kiddy just can't understand why. The wonderment at exploring this great huge world for the first time, and the way he probably looks up to Dixie, because they're going on this huge adventure together. It's a bonding experience.

[Garamonde]

I actually side with Kriven, I don't think he's exactly "boring" either.

[TomGuycott]

One thing I always thought worked well for Kiddy was demonstrating that even at a young age, the Kongs as characters are incredibly strong and well versed in the Kong style basics of climbing, jumping, etc. Plus, while different in design the concept reminds me a lot of Donkey Kong Jr in a way.

I CAN understand why people don't like him. Some people just wanted to play as Donkey Kong again, and other people don't like the idea of playing as a naive, baby-like character. Personally I can live with it, I love all three DKC games so much, and I like to consider them as parts of the same whole.

I liked DK64 a lot too.

[Koopaul]

Honestly I would like Kiddy a lot more if he looked like this:



See how much cuter he looks?

Instead of this:

[Kriven]

Slight derail:

What are Kiddy and Chunky? Donkey's a gorilla, but they outsize him tremendously, and Chunky walks upright. Kiddy shows tendencies that he'll walk upright once he figures it out. Are they supposed to be a gigantopithecus or something?

[TomGuycott]

In reality though I don't think that cute design would lend itself well to performing the kind of things Kiddy ended up doing in DKC3. Besides, the only difference between that sketch and the actual design is that he's slightly smaller, he's crawling and the pacifier is in his mouth instead of not.

As for Chunky's species, it really does seem gorilla inspired, just with upright walking. No idea about Kiddy though, maybe he just has that Stewie Griffin thing going on with his head. In the game universe ALL the Kongs are pretty much considered the same species, even Lanky Kong who is the most obviously different and more like an Orangutan.

[Kriven]

In reality though I don't think that cute design would lend itself well to performing the kind of things Kiddy ended up doing in DKC3. Besides, the only difference between that sketch and the actual design is that he's slightly smaller, he's crawling and the pacifier is in his mouth instead of not.

As for Chunky's species, it really does seem gorilla inspired, just with upright walking. No idea about Kiddy though, maybe he just has that Stewie Griffin thing going on with his head. In the game universe ALL the Kongs are pretty much considered the same species, even Lanky Kong who is the most obviously different and more like an Orangutan.

Kiddy and Chunky are brothers, so they'd be the same species. Yeah, "Kong" kind of is its own thing, and I usually classify them into "Monkeys" (Diddy's) and "Apes" (DK's). Just the thought of the actual species crossed my mind while looking at Kiddy standing erect.

Sidenote: I know they want us all to believe Diddy is a chimp, but he has a god damn tail.

Nerd-Tangent Two: Diddy is the only "Kong" with a tail. Possibilities that he's actually a Grinder that was adopted by the Kongs?

[TomGuycott]

I think a slightly more accurate assertion would be that the character designers didn't know or care what a chimp was. But that always bothered me, being an enthusiast of both monkeys and apes.