Gaming and Sexism

[Koh]

So you're saying that it's alright to continue with this conservative view and backwards market because it "makes money"? I know it's the reality, which is why Anita is making these videos and trying to change things, so we don't have this horrible type of thinking that shouldn't be enforced at all and people would be more comfortable with female leads and stuff.

The point of complaining that "oh but there are male characters that suffer that too" is completely irrelevant, as because of now, there's no balance in stuff focused for man that put women in a powerless role than the opposite. A few examples do not make the injury less important, actually, if anything, it makes it worse, because there are fewer than it should. The thing is, the damsel archetype is only negative and awful because there's nothing to counter-balance it. It enforces values that can keep being repeated over and over. If you closely watch the videos, you'll see that it also shows a HUGE lack of creativity in games development and plot. It's the same story over and over and that's horrible not only for women but for basically everyone.

I'm not saying it's right at all. I'm just saying it's the most profitable route. Badass male lead with possible female supporters and whatnot, and when advertised right, there you go. It's sad it has to be like that, but if you think about it, publishers basically "whore" their games out when they exploit the sex appeal, no matter which side of the coin it is. This is why I believe there was a true "Golden Age" of gaming, being that of the NES/SNES/GBC/GBA/Genesis era, since 3D was a new thing and the sex appeal could only be done so much with sprites. Instead of pouring the pixels into big boobs or a 6-pack chest, they were more suited to showing detail like the character wearing armor or whatever.

[Kriven]

I didn't know overly-feminized male characters were pandering to a female audience?
I don't really think they are?

Also, while this is besides the point, they actually are ahahah. Girls tend to like overly-feminine guys in media, manga and anime that have that proeminentely are a huge hit with women. Women authors (in manga and anime at least) tend to draw overly-feminine guys too.

Huh. I never knew. I never really thought about it, though.

[Mutsukki]

I'm not saying it's right at all. I'm just saying it's the most profitable route. Badass male lead with possible female supporters and whatnot, and when advertised right, there you go. It's sad it has to be like that, but if you think about it, publishers basically "whore" their games out when they exploit the sex appeal, no matter which side of the coin it is. This is why I believe there was a true "Golden Age" of gaming, being that of the NES/SNES/GBC/GBA/Genesis era, since 3D was a new thing and the sex appeal could only be done so much with sprites. Instead of pouring the pixels into big boobs or a 6-pack chest, they were more suited to showing detail like the character wearing armor or whatever.

There's nothing wrong with sex appeal or sexualization. It is wrong when 90% of it is targeted towards 14 year old boys, though.

Also, this """"Golden Age"""" also suffered from games with completely useless female characters (maybe even more)

[Koopaul]

There's nothing wrong with sex appeal or sexualization. It is wrong when 90% of it is targeted towards 14 year old boys, though.

Well these are pretty bold statements I'm about to say, but I think reason for that is it's probably easier marketing to males than females. By that I mean males are generally more easily swayed by action, violence, and sex. These are simple, primal, stupid things that don't require as much thought or care as something that may draw attention to the female market. It basically comes down to laziness.

When it comes to fiction, women find themselves mostly attracted to deeper or more complex characters rather than a piece of meat. This is why Loki is considered the most attractive character out of all Avengers cast. He's not sexy because of his body, and they didn't need to dress him in tight clothes and make sexy poses. It's his actual character that the ladies love.

But making something like that takes more time and craft. A half naked female can make a man want that product in the blink of an eye. It's easy, it's quick, it works.

[Terminal Devastation]

There's nothing wrong with sex appeal or sexualization. It is wrong when 90% of it is targeted towards 14 year old boys, though.

Well these are pretty bold statements I'm about to say, but I think reason for that is it's probably easier marketing to males than females. By that I mean males are generally more easily swayed by action, violence, and sex. These are simple, primal, stupid things that don't require as much thought or care as something that may draw attention to the female market. It basically comes down to laziness.

When it comes to fiction, women find themselves mostly attracted to deeper or more complex characters rather than a piece of meat. This is why Loki is considered the most attractive character out of all Avengers cast. He's not sexy because of his body, and they didn't need to dress him in tight clothes and make sexy poses. It's his actual character that the ladies love.

But making something like that takes more time and craft. A half naked female can make a man want that product in the blink of an eye. It's easy, it's quick, it works.

Whether this is true or not... it's really better to think that there's quick easy ways that work for both genders (super shallow vampires anyone?), but both genders actually want something deeper than that... and if they can get BOTH they will.

There's working... and then there is excelling. Really the goal should be convincing the market that excelling is the best way to make a buck.

Really, my view on the subject is people are complex enough that both shallow fanservice and deep, realistic, and respectful things can coexist, even within the same CHARACTER, so within the same story obviously is possible. Just takes people willing to work for it, which should be encouraged.

That's really all I have to say one the matter.

[Mutsukki]

There's nothing wrong with sex appeal or sexualization. It is wrong when 90% of it is targeted towards 14 year old boys, though.

Well these are pretty bold statements I'm about to say, but I think reason for that is it's probably easier marketing to males than females. By that I mean males are generally more easily swayed by action, violence, and sex. These are simple, primal, stupid things that don't require as much thought or care as something that may draw attention to the female market. It basically comes down to laziness.

When it comes to fiction, women find themselves mostly attracted to deeper or more complex characters rather than a piece of meat. This is why Loki is considered the most attractive character out of all Avengers cast. He's not sexy because of his body, and they didn't need to dress him in tight clothes and make sexy poses. It's his actual character that the ladies love.

But making something like that takes more time and craft. A half naked female can make a man want that product in the blink of an eye. It's easy, it's quick, it works.

This statement is completely untrue, if anything your Loki example is just the opposite of that. Not that Loki is a bad character, but he's not exceptional or great either, it really is -mostly- for his looks and this is no secret. Both him and Thor are actually a good example of sex appeal women tend to like, for different reasons of course.

Also "it's easy and fast to make" is EXACTLY the type of thing that everyone wants to change, it's lazy, unproductive and bad.

[Koopaul]

I didn't say that its a good thing. I'm just explaining why they do it. It's pure laziness.

Also, Loki is not liked for his looks. Go watch that Nostalgia Critic episode on "Why is Loki so Hot?"

[Mutsukki]

I didn't say that its a good thing. I'm just explaining why they do it. It's pure laziness.

Also, Loki is not liked for his looks. Go watch that Nostalgia Critic episode on "Why is Loki so Hot?"

Are you serious. I know Loki's thing about being evil is hot, but you seriously can't see it's mostly because of his looks? Long hair slicked all the way back, pretty face, heck, if you check dA for 2 seconds you'll see his looks plays a big part. While women might like more complex stuff than men, it's not like fanservice isn't appreciated either. And even so, the more "complex stuff" is not even hard to make, it's not justifiable. Your "explaining" sounds more like you trying to justify it than anything, which is bad

[PrettyNier]

this thread is bad

objectification is wrong. no exceptions. objectification happens almost entirely to women when it comes to video games. in cases where people complain of misandry in games, those are largely matters not of objectification but more, uh, idealization, which are entirely different.

[Maxpphire]

I'm almost not sure if this thread should yet exist again.

Sorry, but you know, losing both of your colleges, having no internet to stop it when I could have, and some of the forum being a general shithead to you, irl stressors, such as all of a sudden having to move because mom lost the house (hence why I had no internet. Mom didn't have the money) kinda you know

bad memories.

Also Jason is right

:ogre:

[Koopaul]

Okay then a mod should lock this like I wanted to begin with.

[Gors]

I personally don't think this is a 'bad topic'; as long as you can have a healthy discussion, or at least a share of point of views. It is something that is interesting and brought to question quite frequently

I'm actually surprised with the outcome of this thread because it didn't explode like the other ones with similar theming. In the end, PrettyNier hit the nail regarding this so I think there's nothing left to discuss.