General Sonic is Terrible Thread

[~Axis~]

Here's a real question. Just how many characters have they introduced that never make it out of one particular series?

Ah crap where do I start?

Amy, Rouge, Cream, Eggman, Blaze, Silver, Marine, E123-Omega, Big the Cat, Eggman Nega, Captain Whiskers, Jhonny, Sonic Adventure E series robots(this would have been kickass if it had its own series assuming it was polished and well made), Metal Sonic, Maria, Dr. Gerald Robotnik, Emerl(this too), Gemrl, Chaos(aww hell yes this also), .....

This list just goes on and on and on.

[Iceman404]

[Dolphman]

A game starring Knuckles could easily be a platform game with beat'em up elements. While having the Chaotix and Chaos playable as well.
If they could as well, though kind of unlikely, add Shade from Chronicles. Screw Rouge! Shade's a better girl for Knux. (Yes.I dislike Rouge)

Whatever characters i'd like to see come back would be Mighty and Ray. They may be similar to Sonic, but still cool characters.
Not sure for voices, but i've mostly pictured Rob Paulsen as Mighty using Raphael's voice & sarcasm and Greg Cipes as Ray in my head.
Don't know why fans and the comics portray Ray as a kid. It's never been established he was, and is most likely the same age as Sonic.

One unpopular opinion is i'm on the few that like Big the Cat. It has to do with Jon St John being his original voice actor and now Kyle Hebert being his new one. Two awesome dudes best known for voicing kickass and manly characters.
Archie and Chronicles made his personality better, making him a lovable gentle oaf type character. He even gets badass moments in the comics.


Another thing that bugs me with the comics is that they made Bean and Bark villains, which was also never confirmed.

[psychospacecow]

I really want to see a good chao garden again. I can't stand Sonic Adventure games now, which is weird because I played the heck out of them as a kid, but I really did like the chao garden.

[Koopaul]

I don't think most people mind all the different characters in Sonic, they just didn't like all the dumb game modes you were forced to play as in the Adventure series. If playing as all these characters was an option like it was back in the Genesis days, then I can see people happily accepting them.

[psychospacecow]

By all means, variety is good. Its just a question of what was not done to allow for it.

[Iceman404]

The character implementation itself was just really terrible outside of S3K and Chaotix.

People complain about what they don't like in Sonic all the time, but often they're not exactly sure about what the pinpoint issues. I wish I could send SEGA that video I linked above there.

[~Axis~]

All they really gotta do is just make stages with multiple paths for each different characters (like the ones in S3K where knuckles could break through hard walls and climb up shafts while Tails could reach high platforms as an example).

Its not a hard idea to implement.

[Iceman404]

That's not even close to all it is though. SEGA's issue is considerably less interesting physics than the trilogy games for one. For two, their base level design is really a problem in itself.

Classic Sonic blended SPEED, PLATFORMING, and EXPLORATION consistently into an indistinguishable mesh of great flow that all complimented each other. Modern Sonic tends to have the issue of:
>"Okay here's the mindless hallway boosting section"
>Slams the breaks on literally everything and flips it to 2D for no reason other than nostalgiaboner
>"Okay now here's the platforming section of really slow blocks!"
>"Oh and we put some Red Rings in the corners, exploration right?!"
>"We're doing it right! Aren't we?"
>"... RIGHT GUYS!?"

This is why people often say Sonic Colors lacks flow and has too many 2D parts, they don't know what to specifically complain about because they don't look deep into it enough but they're somewhat close. SEGA needs to get physics and basic design right before they could attempt something like Sonic 3 & Knuckles' various path splits and good use of character abilities, and we sadly seem to be a loooong way from that.

This wouldn't be a problem if they instead went somewhere highly informed in old Sonic design like say, 'Retro, who has a few of their own staff actually WORKING for them at the moment (though its only mobile, sadly). Instead they listen to the most vocal audience that gives generic non in-depth complaints. x.x

Seriously there is no shame in just going public with it and interviewing some of those people or something, fans from there seem to email and talk to employees quite often. SOMEHOW

[~Axis~]

A franchise has gotta be smarter than that. Im part of a family business that suplies food to various places for instance. If we changed the taste or even the types of food we delivered based on a few complaints from people who dont even know what they're talkin about, we'd be bankrupt by now.

One of these complaints was a guy complaning that he didnt like why sweet cakes were sweet so we should stop making them altogether. Doesnt like. Sweet. Cakes.

But he likes cakes and their sweetness.

Just not when they're sweet. WTF?

(btw when I say "like" I mean he eats them knowing they are sweet, and then complains)

[Omegajak]

All they really gotta do is just make stages with multiple paths for each different characters (like the ones in S3K where knuckles could break through hard walls and climb up shafts while Tails could reach high platforms as an example).

Its not a hard idea to implement.

Question: Do people like Sonic Adventure? Like do people look at Sonic Adventure and see that every level in the game is playable as Sonic and that the other characters shorter stories work in and around that? I always thought the was the perfect way to go about the Sonic universe in 3D and was kind of Jarred with Sonic Adventure 2 in the way they cut out the over world and went back to the stage by stage transition. Call me crazy I like the idea of taking the multiple path idea to 'Sonic can go anywhere he's Sonic! other people however...' It'd also make sense for other characters to have levels Sonic doesn't have access to, I mean Tails can actually fly and Sonic can't so being able to go to Zone's where Sonic couldn't traverse would be cool. Plus I think it's worth mentioning we give too much credit to the oriigional 2D games, because simple is always better. It's tighter, it's easier to understand and the restrictions of the time demanded for that and made the game better for it. Peple liked Sonic then Tails got added which added flight now the question of how to get goodies at the top of the screen no longer became a question. Kuckles inclusion just added to that as he can break stones with his fits and all the player has to do is move toward those objects. Running, Jumping, Flying, and different property of running based on character all interchanable abilities that were based around Sonics. Knuckles doesn't jump as high, Tails can't climb, and Sonic can't glide or fly. All have advantages and disadvnatages and are more of a play style than even an actual character selection: I.E Red Sonic and Yellow Sonic

I guess, when thinking about it the thought of "did anyone make a Sonic Adventure Mod where you can beat the entire game with every character? If that could be proven then I'd say SEGA was just too lazy to find better ways to create the levels.


Sorry, I forgot where I was going but the conversation seemed interesting.

[~Axis~]

Sorry, I forgot where I was going but the
conversation seemed interesting.

Yeah this is an interesting thing to talk about.

I actually agree 100% with your idea. I always saw Sonic as a guy who should focus on speed and having seperate stages for each character could make for some sick gameplay. The issue here is with Sonic's stages specifically. All his stages so far have either been really slow and glitchy or hallways that as long as you hold forward on the control stick you win which gets boring and repetetive. You dont have a reason to explore except for red rings nor do you have the space in recent titles. Inserting platforming and puzzle elements would be nice and we got that in Lost World but they over did it. They removed sonics speed and added too much platforming when it should have been a balance between the two.

Iceman implied that the 2D parts werent all that great, which is correct, but has great potential and I personally enjoyed some of it not because of nostagia but because of some other elements like the jump selector and speedy sections and some minor puzzles in Unleashed. They could have made 2D sections akin or even identical to the classics, since its nostalgia they seem to be aiming for, and that would have been great.

I liked Sonic Adventure but I felt like the level designs could have been/worked better.

[Koopaul]

I don't agree with everything in that video. For one I thought the level design in Sonic 2 was brilliant. Having a higher more rewarding area and a slower lower area makes sense when you consider gravity is a thing. Yeah the guy in the video forgets that you start in the faster higher areas but can easily fall into the lower areas if your not careful. That's your punishment. If your good at the game you'll stay up high and get all the best stuff. If you're bad, instead of dieing, you'll wind up in a more annoying area. However the game gives you tons of opportunities to climb back up to a higher path while playing.

I thought this was very clever.

[Kriven]

Designing the stages that way also allows for every level to cater to different audiences.... The top levels for those who gotta go fast, and the lower levels to those who prefer slower platforming. Every part of the stage is fun for somebody.

[~Axis~]

You could also bring that to 3D. Perfect game right there. Imagine speeding through the high paths and fall to the lower parts. Trying to speed there would be a life and death decision.