The Whole Dragon's Crown Sorceress Thing

[miyabi95_]

Yes I am concerned with how overly sexualised the media as a whole is getting. At work I have school kids (some probably as young as 12 talk about rimming) and that kind of thing concerns me greatly.

My main concern is how ridiculous it is done with the Soceress. It's just in your face pervertedness in a game where the rest doesn't really match that extreme.

Uh, I come from generation that had some of the dirtiest, raunchiest kids. I was probably 10 or 11 when I started hearing the word "gaylord" and as soon as I started middle school, all the rest of the derogatory slurs started joining the bunch. Not to mention the discussions involving kids watching porn behind their parents' backs.

But they're just kids. They don't know in the slightest. I should know, I was once a little girl who hung around (mostly) boys who knew close to nothing besides really silly fantasies and assumptions.

Anyway, before things get TMI as hell...I think I'm starting to see your point. It would appear that your gripe is more about a particular design not fitting into the visual style of a game. Now I'm trying to think of other games that have this design choice...

[Goemar]

The word gaylord is a bit different than kids discussing actually having sex with each other. To the point I have little doubt that many are actually sexually active. I mean everyone used the word gay as an insult back when I was a kid. But I didn't know what rimming was until College. Obviously the wonders of the Internet play a large part in this (and bad parenting).

But yes my main issue with the Soceress is that she's too OoT for the game she is in. If the game was called 'Big tit wizard girls' and every character was like that I wouldn't have the same issue. It would be a completely different thing.

Like I said before Quiet in MGS V is a dumb as balls designed character. Ivy in the later Soul Caliber games got a bit close to ridiculous for my liking as well.

When a character is sexualised to the extreme where you pause and ask yourself 'what the hell?' when the rest of the cast doesn't then it's too much for that game.

[miyabi95_]

Sonic was supposed to have a human damsel named Madonna before some of the members of Sonic Team decided it seemed a bit risque, especially because the only other human (or I guess human-like?) character was a man with a giant nose, crazy mustache, and physique reminiscent to a beachball. Even so, I'd say they wanted more of a parody of Jumpman and Pauline than anything with a truly serious intention.

Spoiler

[Hiynastrike]

Apparently people who think making games with anthros in them is a waste because "not enough people wouldn't hate it just for staring anthros" beg to differ.

the ultimate division in what makes a quality "Funny Animal" and a strange "Furry" is design
take a look at Mickey Mouse

you wouldn't consider Mickey Mouse a furry because of how anatomically incorrect he is, he's designed to entertain


while Donkey Kong may be musclebound, he looks effectively like what gorillas look like in life


Banjo is the same way, but his design looks smooth, not chiseled or defined even though he's muscular

Here's where it gets weird...


acceptable ends where reality begins, if an anthropomorphic character looks like a human with an animal's head then it becomes too relatable and it's not something an audience wants to subject itself to.


this is effectively much like the uncanny valley, humans stop seeing a funny animal and start seeing a furry, a cringe worthy extension of a human rather than a funny/cute creation

[miyabi95_]

I suppose Mai Shiranui did get fuller-looking as time progressed. She started out in Fatal Fury looking rather simple, but slowly but surely went out of bounds towards the later KOF installments. I wouldn't say her design stuck out so much (a la Sorceress in Dragon's Crown) until maybe KOF XII (although her Fatal Fury + Real Bout designs are significantly more reserved)

Spoiler

1992

1994

1995

1996

1997

2000

2005

Every now and then they would take a step even further. (The spoiler shows a few of her animations in the later games, and she shows off quite a bit, so click if you don't mind seeing)

Spoiler

(this gives me the jiggles)

And then with KOF XII and XIII they decided to go all out. (more risque game sprites, view at your own risk)

Spoiler

All that being said, it does fit her character. She's a ninja who was trained to use her seductiveness to her advantage. I wouldn't say her design is really that close to how absurd people find the Sorceress to be, but it's definitely out there.

[psychospacecow]

I always liked the Tekken approach where the character was literally just a human who happened to have an animal head.

example

From the wiki,
[quote = http://tekken.wikia.com/wiki/King#Trivia ]King does not speak, but instead growls like a jaguar. These growls are however translated into speech via subtitles, and the people he interacts with seem to clearly understand what he says. [/quote]

That being said, I haven't played Dragon's Crown so I really can't comment beyond what I've seen about it. I personally like the designs because everything about that game is over the top and fits well on small screens like you'd hope a psp game would.

[Kriven]

Apparently people who think making games with anthros in them is a waste because "not enough people wouldn't hate it just for staring anthros" beg to differ.

the ultimate division in what makes a quality "Funny Animal" and a strange "Furry" is design
take a look at Mickey Mouse

you wouldn't consider Mickey Mouse a furry because of how anatomically incorrect he is, he's designed to entertain


while Donkey Kong may be musclebound, he looks effectively like what gorillas look like in life


Banjo is the same way, but his design looks smooth, not chiseled or defined even though he's muscular

Here's where it gets weird...


acceptable ends where reality begins, if an anthropomorphic character looks like a human with an animal's head then it becomes too relatable and it's not something an audience wants to subject itself to.


this is effectively much like the uncanny valley, humans stop seeing a funny animal and start seeing a furry, a cringe worthy extension of a human rather than a funny/cute creation

But not every anthro fiction has to be funny... I think assigning the "Funny Animal" terminology to anthro media is as outdated as assuming comic books are "Funny Books"

[Dolphman]

A good example of anthropomorphic characters done in a serious tone would be the cult comic Fish Police

The comic is a crime drama featuring Inspector Gill, who's the green fish featured on the cover here. It lasted 26 issues in its lifetime.
It also got an in-name-only animated adaptation made as an attempt to compete against The Simpons in 1992. Only has six episodes.
Many say the true reason it flopped as a show was because Hanna-Barbera produced it, as it does look like a Saturday Morning cartoon.

Adult cartoonist Robert Crumb's earliest characters was Fritz the Cat. It was a humorous underground comic from the late 60s though.
It features crazy adventures involving crime, drugs, and sex. One story even crosses the line with him having sex with his sister.
When Ralph Bakshi's adaptation came out, Crumb hated it so much he killed off the character vowing to never use him again.

Ralph Bakshi also made the cult film Coonskin. Think Br'er Rabbit as if he's a dude fighting off corrupted cops, con-men, and the mafia.
I'd say give it a watch if you're curious. You'd be surprised how much Bakshi knows about African American culture.
Gets bonus points from me for starring Phillip Michael Thomas, Barry White, and Scatman Crothers.

And as stated before: We do have a thread to discuss anthropomorphic characters here.

The thing with King and Armor King. Those are actually jaguar head-shaped masks, and we never see their faces officially.
King (the original) was also inspired by Fray Tormenta, a catholic priest who became a luchador to support an orphanage.
I'm sure many of you know about that. But it's still a cool story that helped influence many luchador themed characters.

[Goemar]

My main problem with the whole "fur" thing is when the female is "sexy" but no one else is.

I think Star Fox is the best example of this. All the male characters look perfectly 'normal' and wear clothes which pretty much cover everything. And then we have Krystal, who is either pretty much naked or wearing super tight clothes. Now maybe at first, sure this makes sense with whatever the hell the story for Dinosaur Planet was (but still looks like an excuse for 'fan-service') but then she's recruited by the Star Fox team. Last time I checked the Star Fox team had a uniform. So, what the hell is she wearing?

I honestly have no idea if Star Fox Adventures justifies what she's wearing at all, I can honestly remember very very little about that game.

So with the whole anthropomorphic thing you either make them cartoony and they are free to be naked, or the more human they get the more clothes they should wear - otherwise it's just kind of weird why they are so naked.

[DragonDePlatino]

I completely agree, Goemar, but I'm not sure that the Star Fox series is the best example. What about Miyu and Fay from Star Fox 2? They fit into the rest of the cast pretty well.



When Nintendo wasn't outsourcing their games to other companies, they did a pretty good job on character designs. I know Star Fox 2 was never released, but it feels like more of a genuine Star Fox game to me than Star Fox Adventures considering the latter got the Doki Doki Panic treatment. From what I understand, Krystal already existed back when the game was Dinosaur Planet. It's understandable that she doesn't really fit in with the other characters.

[Zero Kirby]

Never really thought about it until now but it is kind of weird that in Command all the Star Fox team seemed to have a standard uniform... except Krystal. Assault was more freeform I guess but yeah, that is kinda weird.

Anyway, on the topic of general fanservice, I'm one of those people who find fanservice in media rather silly because the Internet exists. People can probably find anything they want of any character they want, so it comes off more as the creators pleasing themselves than trying to entice other people. But, their media, they can make it however they want.

Granted, if it can be justified (and justified well, I'll get into that), then I'm whatever about it. Bayonetta as a character I don't really have any qualms with even though I hate many of the design keys she uses (high-heels, super-skintights, etc. etc.) because that's her character, she's the sort of person who would do that stuff, makes sense in-universe. It's a bit more suspect when done to characters who are otherwise pretty normal or grounded. Zero Suit Samus, for example. I get the skintight suit but I hated the heels they added in Other M because they just... don't fit the character at all. And then there's Quiet from MGSV, whose "justification" for running around half-naked is so cringe-worthy I honestly would have had less of a problem if they had just said "she doesn't like clothes."

On the topic of anthropomorphic characters, same as above. I really don't care that much.

[Goemar]

By 'best example' I simply meant that it's once of the easiest to look at as it's so well known, not that Star Fox as a whole series is the worse offender or anything.

But even if Krystal existed before it was a Star Fox game, there's no reason why her clothes couldn't change in future titles. I mean sometimes it makes sense for characters to wear tight/revealing clothes. Princess Peach for example when she's on a bike or playing tennis. But Krystal wearing tight blue leather around a bunch of men with baggy matching jackets just gives that slightly creepy vibe.

Now I'm aware in Star Fox Assault the whole uniform thing goes out the window (with Falco wearing that ridiculous red thing and doing some rather 'sexy' poses himself) so Falco may also be added to the 'that's kinda creepy' list for that game. Though I'm not sure if he was meant to look edgy/cool. I just thought it looked dumb. And I like Falco. (Sorry Falco).

Now Krystal in Star Fox Command, sure, she has more skin covered. But the anatomy is an utter mess - with her head being bigger than her waist massively so. It's like they was trying so hard to make her look cute/hot that she became some kind of monstrosity. Basically her design doesn't follow the rules of the rest of the cast and that's the issue.

---

Zero-Suit Samus has always bothered me a bit. I mean, I get it, she's in a suit so she'll need something tight fitting. Though surely this would be more of a diving suit like material and not the apparent Latex look Nintendo seems to have gone for. It was an interesting gameplay twist in Zero Mission but with how popular Zero-Suit Samus has got it seems the character of Samus has sadly started to shift from 'cool bad-ass bounty hunter' to 'a piece of nice ass' - which is annoying because I really like Samus as a strong female character so this fan-service side of her kind of hurts that a bit. I'm sure people who play as her in Smash don't want her gone but Samus to me is a walking planet destroyer, not this latex glad sex object.

Of course this would be pretty a-ok if Nintendo didn't seem to increase the size of her bust and ass in every game. I mean just look at her trophy in Melee to how she looks in Smash Wii U - like what the hell happened? Has she been a bounty hunter for the sole purpose of getting butt cheek implants and a boob job?