02-24-2014, 03:55 PM
I say history and you talk about Donkey Kong Country and Banjo Kazooie. You don't know how seriously close I came to writing an epic-length essay post educating you on the number of times Rare and its former name, Ultimate Play The Game, has revolutionized the gaming industry over the course of the Pre-NES through SNES era. In the end, though, I was just way too lazy to go through all the trouble of looking up hundreds of references; plus I doubt anyone would really care to read it anyways. Also, I don't want to come off as a fanboy, because while I feel they deserve respect for what they've done, I don't like them that much.
There is one thing that I feel absolutely compelled to touch on though:
Really? You make that argument every week, and that works for you? Because I can't see people leaving this as the end-all argument.
For starters, it's peculiar that you single out DKC3 specifically, because ALL THREE of the original Donkey Kong Country titles do this. Granted, the first game was a lot more subtle about it, but if you go back and play the game nowadays I think you will find that it too had a unique gimmick for essentially every level. As for the second game, well, that one is honestly probably more guilty of this sin than the third; if it can even actually be considered a "sin", which brings me to another point.
Your argument is basically that because they were capable of coming up with a unique gimmick for each level, that is evidence that they lack creativity. Quite frankly that statement is ... blatantly oxymoronic, for starters. The fact that they were able to include so many different ideas within a single game is if anything a testament to their creative prowess. And even if it wasn't, how are unique gimmicks keeping gameplay fresh throughout the game a bad thing exactly? Are you aware how many games - many of which are considered the best games ever made - you are dissing with that statement?
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! I now present to you a list of games in which the majority of their levels - if not every level - has a unique gimmick:
- Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
- Super Mario World (SNES)
- Super Mario 64 (N64)
- Yoshi's Island (SNES)
- Wario Land 2 (GB)
- Wario Land 4 (GBA)
- Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis)
- Kirby Mass Attack (DS)
- Kirby's Epic Yarn (Wii)
- Contra (NES)
- Every Mario Kart Game Post-SNES
- Every Zelda Game Post-NES
And those are only games that immediately come to mind without getting up from my computer; I could certainly come up with tons of more examples if I delved into my collection or simply did a bit of poking around in Google, but I digress for now.
(I honestly wish I could include some actual traditional Kirby titles on this list, but I'm defining "gimmick" as an element that changes up how players proceed through the game, and the more I think about it, the only thing that really changes in Kirby games from level to level is the layouts and visual aesthetics ... gameplay essentially always stays the same. Huh, that's kind of depressing actually.)
It's just ... such a weird thing to complain about. "Unique gimmicks to keep the game fresh" sounds like something someone would advertise as a positive trait for whatever game they're selling. To not desire that makes one sound like they want every game to be like the NES original Super Mario Bros/Bubble Bobble/Excite Bike scenario where each progressive level is just more of the previous levels with a different layout. I don't want each level of my Donkey Kong Country games being the just the first level of DKC1 repeated over and over with new layouts and different visual aesthetics. I want each level to have originality to them, and keep me on my toes. This is the reason we fell in love with these games in the first place, and the reason why the DKCR games continue to be strong today.
There is one thing that I feel absolutely compelled to touch on though:
(02-24-2014, 12:53 AM)Kosheh Wrote: unfortunately, their originality stops at around killer instinct 2 (1996). it's kind of obvious in DKC3, when every level requires a unique gimmick in order to remain fresh
[and man, i feel like i have this convo once a week]
Really? You make that argument every week, and that works for you? Because I can't see people leaving this as the end-all argument.
For starters, it's peculiar that you single out DKC3 specifically, because ALL THREE of the original Donkey Kong Country titles do this. Granted, the first game was a lot more subtle about it, but if you go back and play the game nowadays I think you will find that it too had a unique gimmick for essentially every level. As for the second game, well, that one is honestly probably more guilty of this sin than the third; if it can even actually be considered a "sin", which brings me to another point.
Your argument is basically that because they were capable of coming up with a unique gimmick for each level, that is evidence that they lack creativity. Quite frankly that statement is ... blatantly oxymoronic, for starters. The fact that they were able to include so many different ideas within a single game is if anything a testament to their creative prowess. And even if it wasn't, how are unique gimmicks keeping gameplay fresh throughout the game a bad thing exactly? Are you aware how many games - many of which are considered the best games ever made - you are dissing with that statement?
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! I now present to you a list of games in which the majority of their levels - if not every level - has a unique gimmick:
- Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
- Super Mario World (SNES)
- Super Mario 64 (N64)
- Yoshi's Island (SNES)
- Wario Land 2 (GB)
- Wario Land 4 (GBA)
- Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis)
- Kirby Mass Attack (DS)
- Kirby's Epic Yarn (Wii)
- Contra (NES)
- Every Mario Kart Game Post-SNES
- Every Zelda Game Post-NES
And those are only games that immediately come to mind without getting up from my computer; I could certainly come up with tons of more examples if I delved into my collection or simply did a bit of poking around in Google, but I digress for now.
(I honestly wish I could include some actual traditional Kirby titles on this list, but I'm defining "gimmick" as an element that changes up how players proceed through the game, and the more I think about it, the only thing that really changes in Kirby games from level to level is the layouts and visual aesthetics ... gameplay essentially always stays the same. Huh, that's kind of depressing actually.)
It's just ... such a weird thing to complain about. "Unique gimmicks to keep the game fresh" sounds like something someone would advertise as a positive trait for whatever game they're selling. To not desire that makes one sound like they want every game to be like the NES original Super Mario Bros/Bubble Bobble/Excite Bike scenario where each progressive level is just more of the previous levels with a different layout. I don't want each level of my Donkey Kong Country games being the just the first level of DKC1 repeated over and over with new layouts and different visual aesthetics. I want each level to have originality to them, and keep me on my toes. This is the reason we fell in love with these games in the first place, and the reason why the DKCR games continue to be strong today.