Depictions of Women in Gaming (and other related issues)

[StarSock64]

Okay, I didn't imply that making her outfit less revealing made her progress as a character or progress over time... I was just stating showing progress as a character in design alone is difficult as it is. Take that plus a character they have no idea what they want to do with and then make that character not age at all due to plot. Anyone would have complications showing progression in that character through design alone. Definitely after the time skip that the story took.

Oh, I see, I guess I misunderstood. That's why I was asking for clarification

I still don't think that it should be a problem though. Not to sound like a broken record, but they've already shown that they can make a variety of P2 outfits. I'm pretty sure there are other ageless characters in the series as well, if I'm not mistaken? They just get different outfits. It shouldn't be difficult for professionals to make different outfits and change up the design sufficiently without having to resort to something like giving her less clothing.

The only thing I can pick up from the story that would even come close to explaining some of her outfits would be the following; her sword is also cursed, causing her sanity to wane over time as well. It isn't truly enough to say, yay slut it up, but she isn't all there.

I guess that's kind of fair, but I don't really buy it. Like, if that was clearly the intention of the designers, then that might be cool? I'm not gonna lie, a deteriorating psycho sounds kind of interesting. But that's not the vibe I really get from her... With that vow of chastity, it seems directly conflicting, even. I suppose there's room for doubt, but since she's in a game with Taki's nipples, I'm inclined to think that the designers just wanted to put some boobies in their game and didn't think too hard about what it says about the characters.

Now about the outfits. Her main outfit in 5 is a lot less slutty than in 4. And we still seem to be going off the 4 outfit. Also, you as a player have the option to customize the character's wardrobe with a variety of options or just making a character yourself. So even if her outfit was the same as it was in 4, why does it matter if there is a skimpy option as one of the options? As was said here earlier, there are plenty of people that are flashy in our world and the customize option plus other costumes makes that point almost entirely moot.

Google image search shows me it's true! I think the point still kinda stands though. My intention (I can't speak for others) isn't really to denounce Ivy as a character, but to use her as an example of some things that happen in the bigger picture. It's great that they took a different direction in 5, but 4 still happened, and that sort of thing is still happening in other games that don't have customization.

The point of not making anyone remotely revealing is supposed to restrict the chance of it being viewed as sexual. I never stated that anyone was automatically against anything revealing.

I reread your message and I realize I totally read it wrong the first time, sorry. I don't know why you would have to go out of your way to try not to make a sexualized outfit though. I just don't know what about that is more difficult than making a normal one, from an artistic point of view. Even if they were harder, they already exist for her P2, so it doesn't require any extra effort for them at all.

I feel like characters and franchises created specifically as fanservice aren't really an issue... that's what the character is for, and that's fine.

I agree with the base of this, but I am pretty concerned with the amount of franchises that are like this. Rumble Roses can exist if it wants to, but where are the games with good female characters to balance it out? That's where encouraging new ways of thinking in creators and future creators comes into play. I'm sure some people do, but I don't necessarily want to force creators to stop making things with fanservice*. I want there to be other cool stuff that I can enjoy in addition to all that stuff, and to get people to think about how they can make such things.

*I really hate out of place or distracting fanservice though. That's not cool.

That's kind of how I feel about it. if there are things created to pander to a male audience, let them do that. It's when things are twisted and warped in an attempt to pander that there's an issue.

I think I mostly agree with this. Changing characters like that drives me crazy, urgh...

Hm...I think I can respond to psychospacecrow, but I think I'm going to wait until later. I have to leave pretty soon.
It's really tempting to make points about societal reflections and media and influence and that sort of thing, but that's so hard to talk about. Everyone has a different experience, it's all really abstract and I don't know of too much concrete evidence.

However, I think it's possible to see why it would be good to have better depictions even if you flat out don't believe that media has anything to do with the way women are treated. I kind of like to take that approach, despite my belief that, well, it does. More on that later!