Depictions of Women in Gaming (and other related issues)

[StarSock64]

I don't know how checking privilege changes what science has and has not learned about how media impacts the ways individuals act in the world.

There is no substantial evidence to validate that playing violent games makes people more violent.
There is no substantial evidence to validate that enjoying any media will make people act more like that fictional world.

Neither is there evidence to the contrary.

But no, that isn't a privilege thing. That's a science thing.
Telling someone who is asking for an unbiased analysis that they are speaking from "Privilege" is likely going to shut down conversation. Instead, start experimenting to determine whether fanservice influences sexual objectification or whether it does not.

This is what I hate to try to explain, because there's just no entirely definitive way that I know to explain it. Maybe there's a good answer out there. I just don't know it. I've read a few papers, but not many. I agree that there should be more studies. However, I don't think this means we should twiddle our thumbs in the meantime. I'm tempted to start ranting about cultural norms and whatever but I don't think it'll get us anywhere. That's why I said I don't even like to talk about this line of reasoning! I think there are other reasons to promote better depictions of women. Which, for me, doesn't mean censorship. I think I'm basically in agreement with the "censorship isn't the solution" side. I kind of just want to form a greater understanding and encourage creators to try harder. Then society will probably change on its own, yeah? I guess maybe for some people that's not fast enough, but that's how I feel.

I do think creators should be held accountable for what they say and what they make, especially what they say because that's getting into real world issues, but...I don't think that's a helpful topic either, so I'm gonna forgo text walls about that. Also, I don't think it's a bad idea to have continued discussions of problematic depictions such as those that we are having about soul calibur. That type of critical thinking potentially leads to better creative decisions, and that's never a bad thing. I guess that type of thing is often turned into "burn this game to the ground!" but, well...I don't know if that's something I support either.

It seems that there's a slight attitude that fanservice is somehow harmful beyond being annoying. Does anyone believe that fanservice somehow hurts women? I don't know if I'm reading something wrong.

From a consumer/creator point of view, since that's what I was talking about earlier, it can. Not always, certainly no, but when it's badly done, it lowers the quality of something I paid for. That sucks!
When it fits the tone and context of the work without being distracting, it's alright I guess. Again, it's not really fanservice in itself that I have a problem with, but fanservice that is poorly implemented, and the imbalance of works with fanservice and those without. I don't think fanservice would be a problem if it weren't so prevalent in the context of a society in which women are mistreated.

I want to make another point, but I'm kind of getting incoherent. I'll at least leave the gist of it and maybe I'll develop it more later:

My last statement begs the question, if all fanservice fit its context, would it be a problem? If there were two hundred rumble roses games where the fanservice made sense in context, but only two other games, would there be a problem? This is certainly an exaggeration, but I'm just trying to illustrate what I'm talking about.

I'm not trying to appeal to the creative side of the argument anymore, so pretend for a minute like the lack of creative variety isn't a problem.
It's a thing of audience and alienation. When I play games, sometimes I feel forced to pick male characters because the female characters either offend me or they just suck. When you play as characters, don't you want to just be cool and beat stuff up? Maybe not always, but it's fun to have that chance, isn't it? It's hard to describe what it's like to not have that chance, because it's something that people just kind of take for granted. I don't get to be a cool woman beating stuff up very often. I can identify with male characters sometimes, sure, but I don't like feeling like I'm in a boys club with no alternative options outside of a few niches. I hate having to face constant disappointment when I like something but I can't enjoy the female characters in the game, and I'm a little sad at how few opportunities there are to play as them. It might not be any one creator's duty to make something with women in mind, but I think things should be encouraged to go in the direction of more variety. That's why awareness is good.

To answer your original question more directly, I do think fanservice hurts women on a societal level because objectification and whatnot, but I just got done saying I don't think going down that path of reasoning will lead anywhere, which makes me kind of sad, but...that's that, I guess.

I don't really see a reason NOT to promote better depictions of women. The complete removal of fanservice stuff or whatever I guess would be bad, but would the reduction of it be? Like, is it really that important that you get so much of it?

Kosheh ur next on my hitlist -_____- (I'm just joking) (But maybe I'll respond later, I'm sick of writing text walls for now)