06-16-2015, 09:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2015, 11:09 AM by E-Man.
Edit Reason: Thanks for merging this post with this thread!
)
Alright, so allow me to share my thoughts on this game. To me, I thought on paper (pun slightly intended) sounded like a fan project. You'd probably would have imagine how dumbfounded I was when I realized it was a real thing. At first, I was entirely skeptical if it was any good or not (especially since it looked a bit Sticker Star-ish from the thumbnail on Gamexplain), but I dived in with low expectations…. Admittedly, I did skim through the comments before watching it to see if it was any good, so my expectations were a bit higher than they initially were.
To get this out of the way, that trailer…
Blew my expectations clean out of the water!
With that said, here are my thoughts, impressions, and overall speculation from this trailer (I'll try to keep information related to the gameplay video and Mario Wiki out of the initial thoughts until after I'm done).
- So, it looks like a fair amount of this game is set in the real (or real as far as Mario and video game standards go) Mushroom Kingdom. Due to the size of the thumbnail, I thought that scene was set in Warm Fuzzy Plains, so you could see where I got the original Sticker Star impression from.
- They're using the same style of text boxes found in Dream Team as opposed to the ones found in the Paper Mario games. This wouldn't be notable if it wasn't for the fact that even the paper characters (Goomba and Peach to be specific) use this text box style. Then again, these instances took place in the "real world," so the text boxes could be different in the paper world (especially since the trailer did not show any characters talking there).
- The two Bowsers meeting is quite brilliant (although predictable). They don't appear to like each other that much (as evidenced from the cartoon fight cloud), so it makes me wonder if they'll team up (much like Bowser did with his younger self) or just remain rivals. By the way, on a slightly unrelated note, I'm having trouble determining if the Bowser's Castle in the footage is a real version or the paper one. While the textures lack any significant paper ascetics, the pillar on the right is noticably polygonal (on of the hallmarks of the paper craft style) and the flame windows look a bit uneven. Speaking of the flame windows, I thought they contained little stain-glass Bowsers the first time watching it. If that were the case, it would lend to Bowser's narcissism very well! XD
- There's not much to talk about Paper Bowser in this. They reused his appearance from Sticker Star, so the horns and spikes are yellow, while the body is orange. I was honestly hoping they would give him a slight recoloring job to match the current Bowser, but it's not a big deal. What is a big deal is if we're going to get the same flat (pun intended) Bowser we got from the fourth Paper Mario game. Even thought he doesn't really speak (with the exception of that roar he possibly made), the "real" Bowser said that his insults are knockoffs. Therefore, it is implied that Bowser does speak in this game in regards to the trailer.
- Not a notable point, but if you look at the fight cloud closely, it looks like the "real" Bowser got the worst of that scuffle based on how his limbs are reacting and the quick partial glance of his face near the end. Perhaps this implies that the "knockoff" is, ironically, stronger than the original? If so, this probably means that Paper Bowser convinces the "real" Bowser to join his side instead of the other way around or the two of them realizing the team up potential at the same time.
- From what the trailer is showing, the paper characters came to the "real world" first. I take it that the meeting at Peach's Castle is early in the game, so it's likely that the characters never visited the paper world yet. Speaking of Peach's Castle, this (along with other scenes) confirms that the game takes place in Mushroom Kingdom proper.
- The gameplay and camera angle are not unlike Dream Team, so this game feels a little like that game with Paper Mario thrown in there with modified controls. I'm not saying that's entirely a bad thing (especially since I'm extremely fond of Dream Team compared to the other three previous entries for personal reasons), but it's clear that (at least so far in regards to this build) this is a pure Mario & Luigi game instead of also featuring Paper Mario's gameplay and camera angle.
- The way Paper Mario flips into paper mode looks a little off to me. There is only one 90 degree rotation and he remains stiff when moving about. If you compare it with how it is in the Thousand Year Door, he settles into each position with several spins and bends a bit in the direction he walks. What's even more jarring is that (much like the mini Mario ability in Dream Team) it is made into more of a context sensitive kind of deal. This likely means that you're unable to use paper mode anywhere on the overworld, which not only kills the chance for experimentation, but also the explanation point makes it obvious to show where you can use this ability instead of encouraging the player to find these locations without that kind of help. I don't mind handholding in games too much, but this is starting to get a little bit silly. :/
- Rescuing Toads again, huh? I'm getting Sticker Star vibes from this… Still, this is just the first area of the game, so it's too soon to say if we're going to get Toads from the paper world and nothing else.
- After looking at the HP levels for the playable characters, it seems that Paper Mario has less health than the "real" Bros. Much like the babies and Bowser, it's obvious right off the bat that Paper Mario will have a different stat distribution where he excels at a few stats and suffers in others. I'm not sure what those stats might be, but I'm thinking speed is likely a strength, while defense and power are weak. Also, to further cement how this is more Mario & Luigi than Paper Mario, Paper Mario's heath stat is 17 instead of 15 (HP and FP are raised by intervals of 5 in the Paper Mario games in case you guys forgotten). Still, it could also mean that Paper Mario was damaged in a fight and didn't bother to heal himself. Speaking of damage, maybe Paper Mario could also have elemental weaknesses considering what he's made of. I imagine that fire and sharp object will make short work out of him.
- There's a new command where the playable characters are able to slide. Much like paper mode, I think it's also context sensitive. Still, I like it since it offers something new for the RPG interpretation of the Bros. to do and is reminicent of Mario's outings on some of his 3-D platformers (especially Super Mario 64).
- Like how the Toad folds himself up to allow "real" Mario to store him on his person. It makes me wonder if Paper Mario is able to pull off something similar if he needs to hide.
- When I first saw the part with the giant spring, I thought that it took place in the paper world. After taking a second look, it appears that there are only paper sets in the "real" desert, which lead to my confusion. It's likely that these are already scattered about and/or you are able to summon these at will (in context sensitive zones or otherwise). Still, I'm hoping that you're bale to visit the paper world and it'll work in a a similar way to how the light world and dark world work in a Link to the Past.
- Throughout the desert, there is a timer that counts down. I'm not sure what it means, but since it's showing the Bros. saving Toads again, that's probably connected to it (especially since the timer starts at 19 minutes at the very least). I'm guessing this is either an optional time attack-like challenge or you're required to find the Toads in a time limit during some parts of the game. In the case of the latter, I hope it doesn't mean that a Game Over in any way, shape, or form results from a failure and you're able to retry the challenge in a less intimidating way.
- Barring the buildings of Little Fungi Town and Toad Town as it appears in Partners in Time, conventional Toad Houses appear for the first time in a Mario & Luigi game. I'm wondering what they could be used for since they seem a bit too generic and out of the way to actually be NPC dwellings. They're either some type of place to hold items or this game's shops and inns on the road. Either those options, or they might be involved with the Toad rescuing puzzle.
- Mario and Luigi use their Super Hammer-like hammers that they always used in this game series, while Paper Mario uses the iconic wooden hammer. While it's not clear that he'll get a new type later in the game, there is an attack where Mario, Luigi, and Paper Mario stack on each other to deliver a powerful shockwave. By the way, this is not related to the footage, but this attack reminds me a little of this one scene in the Nightmare Before Christmas where Mr. Hyde asks Jack Skellington about the stocking during the town meeting song. Seeing the Mario Bros. stacking on top of each other makes me think of those little Hydes stacked on top of the big one.
- We take a glimpse at the battle system and see a bunch of Paper Marios attack a gang of Koopas (we get to fight not only the original versions of enemies, but also their paper counterparts). As far as I know, Paper Mario doesn't exactly split into multiple entities in that fashion, so it's likely that Paper Mario has some special attacks based on concepts involving paper (my guess is that the multiple Marios are based on chains of paper dolls). Also, a star flew to the bottom screen after that attack was done, so it's possible that badges in the style of the previous two Mario and Luigi games are back. While that system is interesting, I'd rather have a badge system from the first two Paper Mario games.
- How Paper Mario attacks and the way the paper enemies are defeated are based on how they are in Sticker Star. Not exactly sure if that's a bad thing yet, but at least stickers don't appear anywhere in this so far, which means that you'll be bale to attack with Paper Mario in a similar way to the first two games. Also, there are two coin styles, but I doubt that it'll have any effect on the gameplay… Still, if it allows for any jokes and situations in the same vein as the current exchange rate of Beanbean Coins, then I'm up for that!
- Boss battles behave like they do in Dream Team, which I'm all up for. (Just between you and me, interacting with bosses in that game is a lot more fun and feels more like a minigame, which puts virtually all Paper Mario battle styles to shame.) ALso, not only is Paper Mario is doing that plane thing again (a nice callback to the Thousand Year Door that I realized a bit later), but he seems to serve a similar role to Starlow in which he helps the Bros. escape unavoidable attacks. By the way, Petey puking sludgeballs provides a good reference to his roots (pun not intended)!
- At first I thought that cylinder things was how Mario and Luigi are able to travel between the "real world" and the paper world, but when it turned into a giant cardboard hammer, my jaw just dropped. This game certainly does capitalize on the paper aesthetic more than the actual Paper Mairo games! Then again, it is necessary since there needs to be a difference between the "real" Mairo Bros. and Paper Mario.
- The tennis attack used on Petey reminds me a lot of Sling-a-Thing from Sticker Star. They made it clear that Paper Mario's color is orange, which does not bid well for the possibility of a playable Paper Luigi. Otherwise, the tennis racket would be red. Anyway, compared to the Koopa fight, the numbers used in the attack are considerably low. I know that's probably the nature of multi-hit attacks, but it's either suggesting that the Petey fight takes place early in the game or the game also incorporates the original (or close enough considering Sticker Star's involvement) Paper Mario battle system, which uses small numbers.
- Papercraft Mario!? I honestly wasn't expecting that! From how it plays out and the use of CGI Mario and Luigi models, I'm wiling to bet that this is what replaces the giant battles from the last two games (not that I mind it in even the slightest). There appears to be two meters in this, which I thought were both separate HP bars. Upon further inspection, the Toad one decreases with pretty much every move, so it's probably like FP or SP. With all that said, this is a good change of pace from the giant battles, which are probably going to get really stale if they keep using that same concept over and over again.
This is what I gathered from the trailer. Overall, it's a solid game and looks very enjoyable and creative. As far as the art style goes, I'm a bit puzzled by why they didn't make fresh Mario and Luigi sprites instead of reusing the ones from Dream Team. s much as I find that style refreshing when it first came out, it certainly is odd when you consider that they made an entirely new sprite style for Bowser's Inside Story when they could have reused the one from Partners in Time (another entry to the series that was released on the same system) and no one would have honestly complain. Since they're doing that now, it just seems a slight bit lazy on Alphadream's part. While we're on that subject, they're reusing a lot of assets and concepts from Sticker Star, which makes me a bit uncomfortable. Knowing that the M&L team is fond of diving into Mario's history and reusing whatever characters they could find, this is probably nothing to worry about. Still, I just wish that the could have made the paper characters animate like they do in the Thousand Year Door. It's only a small nitpick and it's likely just hardware limitations, though. Either way, I'm keeping my eye on this game to see how it turns out sicne it shows a lot of promise!
I would have said more than that initially, but I stayed up way too late at the time (it's even worse since I'm a bit sick at the moment).
To get this out of the way, that trailer…
Blew my expectations clean out of the water!
With that said, here are my thoughts, impressions, and overall speculation from this trailer (I'll try to keep information related to the gameplay video and Mario Wiki out of the initial thoughts until after I'm done).
- So, it looks like a fair amount of this game is set in the real (or real as far as Mario and video game standards go) Mushroom Kingdom. Due to the size of the thumbnail, I thought that scene was set in Warm Fuzzy Plains, so you could see where I got the original Sticker Star impression from.
- They're using the same style of text boxes found in Dream Team as opposed to the ones found in the Paper Mario games. This wouldn't be notable if it wasn't for the fact that even the paper characters (Goomba and Peach to be specific) use this text box style. Then again, these instances took place in the "real world," so the text boxes could be different in the paper world (especially since the trailer did not show any characters talking there).
- The two Bowsers meeting is quite brilliant (although predictable). They don't appear to like each other that much (as evidenced from the cartoon fight cloud), so it makes me wonder if they'll team up (much like Bowser did with his younger self) or just remain rivals. By the way, on a slightly unrelated note, I'm having trouble determining if the Bowser's Castle in the footage is a real version or the paper one. While the textures lack any significant paper ascetics, the pillar on the right is noticably polygonal (on of the hallmarks of the paper craft style) and the flame windows look a bit uneven. Speaking of the flame windows, I thought they contained little stain-glass Bowsers the first time watching it. If that were the case, it would lend to Bowser's narcissism very well! XD
- There's not much to talk about Paper Bowser in this. They reused his appearance from Sticker Star, so the horns and spikes are yellow, while the body is orange. I was honestly hoping they would give him a slight recoloring job to match the current Bowser, but it's not a big deal. What is a big deal is if we're going to get the same flat (pun intended) Bowser we got from the fourth Paper Mario game. Even thought he doesn't really speak (with the exception of that roar he possibly made), the "real" Bowser said that his insults are knockoffs. Therefore, it is implied that Bowser does speak in this game in regards to the trailer.
- Not a notable point, but if you look at the fight cloud closely, it looks like the "real" Bowser got the worst of that scuffle based on how his limbs are reacting and the quick partial glance of his face near the end. Perhaps this implies that the "knockoff" is, ironically, stronger than the original? If so, this probably means that Paper Bowser convinces the "real" Bowser to join his side instead of the other way around or the two of them realizing the team up potential at the same time.
- From what the trailer is showing, the paper characters came to the "real world" first. I take it that the meeting at Peach's Castle is early in the game, so it's likely that the characters never visited the paper world yet. Speaking of Peach's Castle, this (along with other scenes) confirms that the game takes place in Mushroom Kingdom proper.
- The gameplay and camera angle are not unlike Dream Team, so this game feels a little like that game with Paper Mario thrown in there with modified controls. I'm not saying that's entirely a bad thing (especially since I'm extremely fond of Dream Team compared to the other three previous entries for personal reasons), but it's clear that (at least so far in regards to this build) this is a pure Mario & Luigi game instead of also featuring Paper Mario's gameplay and camera angle.
- The way Paper Mario flips into paper mode looks a little off to me. There is only one 90 degree rotation and he remains stiff when moving about. If you compare it with how it is in the Thousand Year Door, he settles into each position with several spins and bends a bit in the direction he walks. What's even more jarring is that (much like the mini Mario ability in Dream Team) it is made into more of a context sensitive kind of deal. This likely means that you're unable to use paper mode anywhere on the overworld, which not only kills the chance for experimentation, but also the explanation point makes it obvious to show where you can use this ability instead of encouraging the player to find these locations without that kind of help. I don't mind handholding in games too much, but this is starting to get a little bit silly. :/
- Rescuing Toads again, huh? I'm getting Sticker Star vibes from this… Still, this is just the first area of the game, so it's too soon to say if we're going to get Toads from the paper world and nothing else.
- After looking at the HP levels for the playable characters, it seems that Paper Mario has less health than the "real" Bros. Much like the babies and Bowser, it's obvious right off the bat that Paper Mario will have a different stat distribution where he excels at a few stats and suffers in others. I'm not sure what those stats might be, but I'm thinking speed is likely a strength, while defense and power are weak. Also, to further cement how this is more Mario & Luigi than Paper Mario, Paper Mario's heath stat is 17 instead of 15 (HP and FP are raised by intervals of 5 in the Paper Mario games in case you guys forgotten). Still, it could also mean that Paper Mario was damaged in a fight and didn't bother to heal himself. Speaking of damage, maybe Paper Mario could also have elemental weaknesses considering what he's made of. I imagine that fire and sharp object will make short work out of him.
- There's a new command where the playable characters are able to slide. Much like paper mode, I think it's also context sensitive. Still, I like it since it offers something new for the RPG interpretation of the Bros. to do and is reminicent of Mario's outings on some of his 3-D platformers (especially Super Mario 64).
- Like how the Toad folds himself up to allow "real" Mario to store him on his person. It makes me wonder if Paper Mario is able to pull off something similar if he needs to hide.
- When I first saw the part with the giant spring, I thought that it took place in the paper world. After taking a second look, it appears that there are only paper sets in the "real" desert, which lead to my confusion. It's likely that these are already scattered about and/or you are able to summon these at will (in context sensitive zones or otherwise). Still, I'm hoping that you're bale to visit the paper world and it'll work in a a similar way to how the light world and dark world work in a Link to the Past.
- Throughout the desert, there is a timer that counts down. I'm not sure what it means, but since it's showing the Bros. saving Toads again, that's probably connected to it (especially since the timer starts at 19 minutes at the very least). I'm guessing this is either an optional time attack-like challenge or you're required to find the Toads in a time limit during some parts of the game. In the case of the latter, I hope it doesn't mean that a Game Over in any way, shape, or form results from a failure and you're able to retry the challenge in a less intimidating way.
- Barring the buildings of Little Fungi Town and Toad Town as it appears in Partners in Time, conventional Toad Houses appear for the first time in a Mario & Luigi game. I'm wondering what they could be used for since they seem a bit too generic and out of the way to actually be NPC dwellings. They're either some type of place to hold items or this game's shops and inns on the road. Either those options, or they might be involved with the Toad rescuing puzzle.
- Mario and Luigi use their Super Hammer-like hammers that they always used in this game series, while Paper Mario uses the iconic wooden hammer. While it's not clear that he'll get a new type later in the game, there is an attack where Mario, Luigi, and Paper Mario stack on each other to deliver a powerful shockwave. By the way, this is not related to the footage, but this attack reminds me a little of this one scene in the Nightmare Before Christmas where Mr. Hyde asks Jack Skellington about the stocking during the town meeting song. Seeing the Mario Bros. stacking on top of each other makes me think of those little Hydes stacked on top of the big one.
- We take a glimpse at the battle system and see a bunch of Paper Marios attack a gang of Koopas (we get to fight not only the original versions of enemies, but also their paper counterparts). As far as I know, Paper Mario doesn't exactly split into multiple entities in that fashion, so it's likely that Paper Mario has some special attacks based on concepts involving paper (my guess is that the multiple Marios are based on chains of paper dolls). Also, a star flew to the bottom screen after that attack was done, so it's possible that badges in the style of the previous two Mario and Luigi games are back. While that system is interesting, I'd rather have a badge system from the first two Paper Mario games.
- How Paper Mario attacks and the way the paper enemies are defeated are based on how they are in Sticker Star. Not exactly sure if that's a bad thing yet, but at least stickers don't appear anywhere in this so far, which means that you'll be bale to attack with Paper Mario in a similar way to the first two games. Also, there are two coin styles, but I doubt that it'll have any effect on the gameplay… Still, if it allows for any jokes and situations in the same vein as the current exchange rate of Beanbean Coins, then I'm up for that!
- Boss battles behave like they do in Dream Team, which I'm all up for. (Just between you and me, interacting with bosses in that game is a lot more fun and feels more like a minigame, which puts virtually all Paper Mario battle styles to shame.) ALso, not only is Paper Mario is doing that plane thing again (a nice callback to the Thousand Year Door that I realized a bit later), but he seems to serve a similar role to Starlow in which he helps the Bros. escape unavoidable attacks. By the way, Petey puking sludgeballs provides a good reference to his roots (pun not intended)!
- At first I thought that cylinder things was how Mario and Luigi are able to travel between the "real world" and the paper world, but when it turned into a giant cardboard hammer, my jaw just dropped. This game certainly does capitalize on the paper aesthetic more than the actual Paper Mairo games! Then again, it is necessary since there needs to be a difference between the "real" Mairo Bros. and Paper Mario.
- The tennis attack used on Petey reminds me a lot of Sling-a-Thing from Sticker Star. They made it clear that Paper Mario's color is orange, which does not bid well for the possibility of a playable Paper Luigi. Otherwise, the tennis racket would be red. Anyway, compared to the Koopa fight, the numbers used in the attack are considerably low. I know that's probably the nature of multi-hit attacks, but it's either suggesting that the Petey fight takes place early in the game or the game also incorporates the original (or close enough considering Sticker Star's involvement) Paper Mario battle system, which uses small numbers.
- Papercraft Mario!? I honestly wasn't expecting that! From how it plays out and the use of CGI Mario and Luigi models, I'm wiling to bet that this is what replaces the giant battles from the last two games (not that I mind it in even the slightest). There appears to be two meters in this, which I thought were both separate HP bars. Upon further inspection, the Toad one decreases with pretty much every move, so it's probably like FP or SP. With all that said, this is a good change of pace from the giant battles, which are probably going to get really stale if they keep using that same concept over and over again.
This is what I gathered from the trailer. Overall, it's a solid game and looks very enjoyable and creative. As far as the art style goes, I'm a bit puzzled by why they didn't make fresh Mario and Luigi sprites instead of reusing the ones from Dream Team. s much as I find that style refreshing when it first came out, it certainly is odd when you consider that they made an entirely new sprite style for Bowser's Inside Story when they could have reused the one from Partners in Time (another entry to the series that was released on the same system) and no one would have honestly complain. Since they're doing that now, it just seems a slight bit lazy on Alphadream's part. While we're on that subject, they're reusing a lot of assets and concepts from Sticker Star, which makes me a bit uncomfortable. Knowing that the M&L team is fond of diving into Mario's history and reusing whatever characters they could find, this is probably nothing to worry about. Still, I just wish that the could have made the paper characters animate like they do in the Thousand Year Door. It's only a small nitpick and it's likely just hardware limitations, though. Either way, I'm keeping my eye on this game to see how it turns out sicne it shows a lot of promise!
I would have said more than that initially, but I stayed up way too late at the time (it's even worse since I'm a bit sick at the moment).
![[+]](images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")