Flipped Faces? Looks fine if settings are correct but is it worth of submission? BBS

[Zerox]

Hey guys recently I've learned how to rip models from Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep. The only issue is these aren't exactly the easiest or most perfect rips by any means.

Here's the issue, The models have the entire mesh/geometry but it appears as if every other face is reversed. So they are still there but can only be seen through the opposite side or from inside the model. They look like this:



But if the right settings are applied it is possible to make the model look more natural. What I've been doing is making the faces "two-sided" or telling the program to "draw backfaces". Essentially meaning that I cause the program to show the reversed face just as if it were facing forward like it should be. Though these edges appear darker and still make the model look bad so I just disable lighting on the model. One such method of that is making the material layer for the texture emmisive so there are no shadows on it.

With the correct settings applied the model looks like this:



And now the model appears more natural. I can proceed to bone, animate, pose it etc. But I must admit this is more a work around than a perfect fix. I would love it if anyone can suggest to me anything to fix this problem. Doing this manually is an option but 1000-3000 individual triangles to do it to is quite tedious.

This may also have to do with the normals. Does anyone have any suggestions or should I submit the models as they are? As you can see by my avatar they work just fine but like I said it's a work around and not an actual solution to the real problem.

Share with me your thoughts.

[Gors]

I really can't help you on how to rip a model because it's not my area, but if the end result does look convincing enough (like this, for example), I don't think it's a problem.

[Shadowth117]

Hey guys recently I've learned how to rip models from Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep. The only issue is these aren't exactly the easiest or most perfect rips by any means.

Here's the issue, The models have the entire mesh/geometry but it appears as if every other face is reversed. So they are still there but can only be seen through the opposite side or from inside the model. They look like this:
*large picture 1*

But if the right settings are applied it is possible to make the model look more natural. What I've been doing is making the faces "two-sided" or telling the program to "draw backfaces". Essentially meaning that I cause the program to show the reversed face just as if it were facing forward like it should be. Though these edges appear darker and still make the model look bad so I just disable lighting on the model. One such method of that is making the material layer for the texture emmisive so there are no shadows on it.

With the correct settings applied the model looks like this:
*large picture 2*

And now the model appears more natural. I can proceed to bone, animate, pose it etc. But I must admit this is more a work around than a perfect fix. I would love it if anyone can suggest to me anything to fix this problem. Doing this manually is an option but 1000-3000 individual triangles to do it to is quite tedious.

This may also have to do with the normals. Does anyone have any suggestions or should I submit the models as they are? As you can see by my avatar they work just fine but like I said it's a work around and not an actual solution to the real problem.

Share with me your thoughts.

Sorry dude, no dice on a automatic fix :/ A lot of model conversions, usually 3D Ripper DX imports more than anything else, get the normals problem and its not something you can really fix too easily so far as I can tell. I usually end up manually doing it, though the tediousness definitely gives me hesitation on ripping models that need it to look right. The fact is, you can use the "two-sided" or "draw backfaces" option, but like you said you'll see ugly results from what happens with the botched normals when you render your model with any sort of lighting.

I honestly wish I knew how to fix the problem myself because it would REALLY help out on ripping a lot of stuff, but I don't know that there's an easy way to do it. If you ever find a method I'd seriously love to know it.

I'm not gonna force you to submit your models with the normals corrected, but it would be like submitting a large sheet of detailed sprites with the wrong palette and forcing someone to recolor them correctly with the fill and eyedropper tools alone since that's basically the equivalent of what someone would go through to fix the normals. Someone would have to fix them in the end regardless if the models were ever used for anything more than a very basic render.

[Zerox]

Yeah it's a pain having to deal with them manually. I guess I just won't submit them until I or someone finds a way to fix this issue. Thanks Shadowth117 and you too Gors.

[Labbed]

In Blender there is a feature for normals called "Recalculate Outside" which would fix this problem. I don't know what 3D software you use but there should be a similar feature. If not, import it into Blender and recalculate outside and then export it to .OBJ or whatever.

[Zerox]

WONDERFUL! Thanks Labbed. I'll go find that feature now! I got Blender so it shouldn't be an issue. Where is this feature located though?

[Labbed]

When in Edit Mode, Go to Mesh > Normals > Recalculate Outside. Or you could press Ctrl+N. Be sure to have all faces selected.

[Zerox]

Okay I'll give it a shot and then I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Edit: Alright I found the option and it works great! Only thing is that it only selected a bit of the faces to do it to. I only could get a few on his head despite having hit A to select all in Object mode before going to edit mode. Any idea why this is or how I really can select everything in edit mode? I'm really inexperienced with Blender.

[Labbed]

When hitting A in Object Mode you will select all the objects in the scene. Hit A (possibly twice) in Edit Mode instead to select all vertices, and then try again.

[Zerox]

Ah bless you Labbed! Thanks to you I've been able to get the normals correct. It works great. It by no means is a perfect method because I still have to manually reflip some faces by hand. But it's a lot less work than it would have been before by about 100x. So thanks to your Blender fix I can now start sharing BBS models here with proper normals for proper shading.



I just gotta fix up a few faces in his hair and then he'll be ready to be submitted here. Before this I would have said that the models initially looked like they went through a blender. But seeing as the blender is what is doing the fixing this time I'm not sure I can say that anymore.

[Shadowth117]

Definitely glad to see this worked good for you Zerox because now I think I can probably get a lot of other stuff fixed much easier.

Huge thanks to you Labbed for pointing out this feature and how to use it correctly.

[Labbed]

Hah. I'm glad I could help And good luck with the models, Zerox!

[Zerox]

Well see this is why I posted it I had hoped someone may have a fix. And thanks to you Labbed we found one. And by the sounds of it other people may benefit from this other than me. So I greatly appreciate the help. Lea is all done. I may or may not bone him so I'll wait to see what I do with him before I submit him.